Thread: 6.5CM craze

As has been mentioned, ammo-availability, is a huge factor. In a way, the Market was trying to get away from the weak-action 6.5x55 hype (BS!). They knew it was a winner, from what down-loaded swedes could do, and what years of forums showed handloads could do in that same caliber, long before all the other 6.5-hybrids came along. Most hunters (USA at least) just want to buy grunty, off-the-shelf ammo. All us Swede-owners, just yawned and smiled, when it came along. It is a good all-rounder, and I've yet to see an inaccurate one...plus all you .308 guys should compare how many wet ph-books the two will go through, side-by-side with equivalent projectiles. You might be surprised. The US military was, back in the day, when the Swede out-performed the 7.62-Nato, by 9" into compressed-wet-sand-bags...so the "Sweedmore" should be adequate for most things,given that its 'almost' a x55....almost

Originally Posted by Gkp

Well over rated IMO. They don't have the SD to knock down an animal as quick as a 308. From what I have seen it always takes more than one shot to kill a red.
The flip side is that they are nice to shoot, very accurate and low recoil. That said so is my 308.

You need to gen up on what SD is and how calculate it, then run the numbers.

Actually, I'll do it for you.

.308 175gr ELD-X.... SD = 0.264
.308 150gr GameKing.... SD = 0.226

.264 143gr ELD-X.... SD = 0.293
.263 130gr GameKing SD = 0.266

As for needing second shots to kill a red, maybe your hunting with the blind?

Sorry, courier has let me down (again) this morning, so I'm picking on you.

Originally Posted by Wingman

Yes it is.. the USA military have adopted it. I had to import a CIP (European std) chamber reamer instead of the now restricted SAAMI spec reamer.

Learn something new every day! Nothing is safe from the GI's it would seem!

Originally Posted by Flyblown

You need to gen up on what SD is and how calculate it, then run the numbers.

Actually, I'll do it for you.

.308 175gr ELD-X.... SD = 0.264
.308 150gr GameKing.... SD = 0.226

.264 143gr ELD-X.... SD = 0.293
.263 130gr GameKing SD = 0.266

As for needing second shots to kill a red, maybe your hunting with the blind?

Sorry, courier has let me down (again) this morning, so I'm picking on you.

I thought that might spice it up a bit.

Don't see what all the fuss is about.
Hit 'em right, they fall down dead.
Nothing wrong with a 260AI (I don't have one).
I'll neck down all the 308 brass I've got, and get a barrel in 6.5, chambered for 260AI, and fire form the brass.
That's if I ever shoot a 308 barrel out.
And if the arthritic shoulder needs to downsize.
Bigger holes bleed more - SD is only important for big heavy animals, where deep penetration is needed IMHO.

Originally Posted by Gkp

Well over rated IMO. They don't have the SD to knock down an animal as quick as a 308. From what I have seen it always takes more than one shot to kill a red.
The flip side is that they are nice to shoot, very accurate and low recoil. That said so is my 308.

I dont own one but saying stuff like that is so stupid. If its taking more than one shot with pretty much any of the 308 based cases inside 300 yards in NZ you are picking the wrong projectile, dont know where to aim, or suck at shooting. The only other option is the odd shot were things dont go to plan (which happens but shouldn't every shot). A 140 class 6.5 projectile is plenty for anything in NZ if you know your limits.

Chardonnay, camembert and creedmoor...the only way to hunt in style baby, but only of you like to call goat meat 'chèvre'.

Originally Posted by Beetroot

It doesn't perform any better than a 260 or 6.5x55, what it offers is the same or similar performance slightly more efficiently, but fitting comfortably in a small action.
The biggest advantage is the right from the get go it was marketed well, knew what section of the market it appealed too and ensure rifles had barrels with the right twist rrate for heavy projectiles and factory ammunition was widely available at a reasonable price with match grade ammo being easy to get.

Whilst a lot of the new wonder cartridges don't do anything ground breaking, they are marketed correctly and have a steady supply of gpod factory ammo available that you can go buy a gun with good accurate ammo from day one.

There are dozens of cartridges developed over the last 50 odd years that were good rounds, but failed due to lack of factory ammo, rifles in stupid twists, lack of match ammo etc etc.

The 260rem was almost dead in the water due to being marketed to the wrong crowd, same with 284win.
Both excellent cartridges, but almost dead as a do do due too not knowing their intended end user.

Exactly. Marketing. Good selection of rifles and accurate off the shelf ammo. With PRS style shooting becoming more and more popular, the availability of bulk accurate factory ammo at a good price for those that dont reload i think is probably the biggest factor in the success.

Sweed and 260 should theoretically get higher velocity's. But really you are splitting hairs in the differences.
260 ammo on the shelf is like unicorns. And if you find it on the shelf you pay for it too. My 260 came with a box of 140gr core loks that the sticker price was $85 !!! who wants to pay 85 bucks for 20 soft point rounds?
and as others have mentioned factory swede ammo is anemic AF.

Any wild cat or new cartridge released there will be an existing cartridge that will do a very similar job. Its all in the marketing and availability of ammo and reloading components.

All the 6.5 calls work, so I will stick with the swede, as for lacking penetration pass throughs on sambar make them more than adequate. The swede is more accurate than I am which is nice, mild to shoot etc. Pretty much like all the 6.5 s out there, the choice is yours.

IF the creedmore HADNT been available in AR platforms and you can say the same for the 6.8spc and spc11 and the 450 bushmaster NONE of them wouldve been more than a blip on the radar and would still be considered wildcat rounds....
BECAUSE they were and rode the wave they flourished...some wild claims did them a disservice but used within the limits of good sense all three are good at what they do.

the good news is that because they have flourished the projectile choice in these calibres has increased a whole heap....
I wont be selling a .308 or .270 to buy one anytime soon.

In its defence, it IS a very accurate round. Nobody seems to have issues with it doing well under MOA goups. Look up how it came about, interesting story.
On most actions it is easy to "load them long" it comes off the shelf with some very accurate loads as well.
Is it any better than other short action 6.5's ....nah its just another arrow in the quiver.
Yes you can get better ballistics etc from an AI version of 260 etc but then you arent getting "off the shelf" accuracy.
Its generated a lot of sales and interst in reloading too....... and that aint a bad thing.

If its not performing on game then that is down to projectile choice for the job at hand.
Having had / have both 260 and CM there isnt much between them I would happily use either interchangably ( is that a word )

Originally Posted by rewa

As has been mentioned, ammo-availability, is a huge factor. In a way, the Market was trying to get away from the weak-action 6.5x55 hype (BS!). They knew it was a winner, from what down-loaded swedes could do, and what years of forums showed handloads could do in that same caliber, long before all the other 6.5-hybrids came along. Most hunters (USA at least) just want to buy grunty, off-the-shelf ammo. All us Swede-owners, just yawned and smiled, when it came along. It is a good all-rounder, and I've yet to see an inaccurate one...plus all you .308 guys should compare how many wet ph-books the two will go through, side-by-side with equivalent projectiles. You might be surprised. The US military was, back in the day, when the Swede out-performed the 7.62-Nato, by 9" into compressed-wet-sand-bags...so the "Sweedmore" should be adequate for most things,given that its 'almost' a x55....almost

There was a flurry of 6+mm in the world's militaries end of the 19th Century, they had thought long and hard about it and settled on 6.5 as the ideal calibre. The Scandinavians (swedes + norse, not just the swedes) settled on the 6.5x55, the Japanese on their 6.5x51SR (similar case capacity to 6.5creedmoor and about 1.5x muzzle energy of 5.56x45). The Americans in turn went overboard and had their 6mm Lee Navy, a very flat shooter (whose main legacy is as the mother case for .220 Swift) but their bores got eaten up by the hot, eroding, Rifleite powder and they settled on the 30/40 Krag. The Japanese in turn standardised on a rimless .303 clone shortly before WW2.

Post WW2 the pendulum stayed on 30 calibre, in the form of the .308 which is just a short action 30/06. But then (because it was really to big for infantry weapons, especially the M14 with high barrel above its gas tube) the military pendulum flicked waaayyy back to the .223... whose main advantage is that you get to carry a lot more bullets.

Now we seem to be settling on a short action 6.5 Jap. No problem with that. We know they make great cars and much better photocopiers, great everything. A superior nation getting it right in so many ways.

Originally Posted by WallyR

Don't see what all the fuss is about.
Hit 'em right, they fall down dead.
Nothing wrong with a 260AI (I don't have one).
I'll neck down all the 308 brass I've got, and get a barrel in 6.5, chambered for 260AI, and fire form the brass.
That's if I ever shoot a 308 barrel out.
And if the arthritic shoulder needs to downsize.
Bigger holes bleed more - SD is only important for big heavy animals, where deep penetration is needed IMHO.

True about the hole/bleed-thing...I constantly have to remind myself that 'Many', dont reload, a reloaders answer to this, is to choose the projectile that doesnt go straight-through and out the other side ( I find 140's do this often .in 6.5x55) So we find something that is a bit more 'Frangible' in the 120, and lower. It delivers all the energy to the point of impact-through,but not out the other side. They seem to perform way past what they should. At the end of the day, its whatever works, and I do admit, if I was rifle-less, I'd seriously look at a CM

Originally Posted by Nugget connaisseur

Any wild cat or new cartridge released there will be an existing cartridge that will do a very similar job.

Similar? I'm not so sure. Designing cases on a small primer pocket head I see as a step change.

Originally Posted by LJP

Just how special is the 6.5CM? Seems like a disease here in NZ....is it really better than the plain jane 260 Rem or trusty 6.5x55???

I have all 3.

So, the 6.5 Creedmoor is not magic. Just a lot of marketing on a successful 6.5 platform A real coup for Hornady. And the 260 Rem and 6.5x47 are for all intents and purposes identical... they damn well should be, after all they are shooting the same bullets!!!

There are advantages in traj and drift over .308 though but many of those advantages do not show up until you are beyond 500m. In fact under 500m, I would stick with .308 based on cost alone.

I do have a Precision rifle in 6.5 CM and a DMR AR10 in 6.5 and they are a delight in the field and at the range.

But they are no better or worse than other 6.5s.... But they are powder efficient, the neck angle leads to less brass working, small primer is nice... it is the little things that make it worthwhile to pursue.