Thread: 6.5x55 accuracy

Re The round going off as you extracted it.....I thing that's what's called a hang fire!? Which basically means instead of the primer detonating when the fire pin hits it, the primer does a slow burn, sort of like the embers of a fire glowing, then suddenly bursting into flame a few seconds later. I recall a safety protocols from somewhere is, if the round misfires DONT extract it immediately. Count to ten or recite The Lord's Prey, before opening the bolt. Obviously keep the muzzle pointing down range! This might seem ludicrous, but if you have some faulty ammunition and this reoccur, it could scare you for life. Be careful, think safety.

Not all rifles shoots consistantly good with factory ammo. Get in contact with a local reloader, have them pull some of the ammo to get the information needed and Im pretty sure they'll be able to assist to reload all your empty cases.

Greetings,
Hang fires can be dangerous and were more common with old military ammo in the Lee Enfield. The process if the round does not go bang is to slowly count to ten while controlling muzzle direction before opening the bolt. It can be due to the ammo and sometimes the rifle as well including headspace. Will post on this further later in the day.
Regards Grandpamac.

Several years ago I bought a Sako Bavarian in 6.5x55. While waiting for some reloading components to arrive, I purchased a box of Winchester 140gn ammo- wouldn't group at all. Absolutely hopeless. Having heard only good things about it, I bought Federal blue box 140gn ammo to see what the difference might be. I was amazed at the cloverleaf group it produced, just to check it wasn't a complete fluke I managed to produce a second group of 3 shots with the same result at 100m. Now, I've never considered myself to be a particularly good shot, minute of deer has always been good enough for me and I've never shot anything further than 300m away, so this was pretty exciting stuff. I'm sure the reloaders out there know what happens next- for the life of me I couldn't replicate the results with my handloads, despite firstly copying the COAL of the Federal ammo, then varying the powder loads; after a lot of testing and out of frustration I seated the bullet (143 gn ELDX) about as far out as possible which finally produced the results I first achieved witht the factory ammo. I can still feel the satisfaction this bought. So, to the OP, have a go with different ammo to see what suits best, and once you start handloading (under careful guidance), experiment with different powder loads and projectiles to find the most suitable load for your rifle - I look forward to hearing how you get on. And if you find that Winchester 140gn works best for you, let me know, I've got 12 rounds you can have!

Originally Posted by BFA

Several years ago I bought a Sako Bavarian in 6.5x55. While waiting for some reloading components to arrive, I purchased a box of Winchester 140gn ammo- wouldn't group at all. Absolutely hopeless. Having heard only good things about it, I bought Federal blue box 140gn ammo to see what the difference might be. I was amazed at the cloverleaf group it produced, just to check it wasn't a complete fluke I managed to produce a second group of 3 shots with the same result at 100m. Now, I've never considered myself to be a particularly good shot, minute of deer has always been good enough for me and I've never shot anything further than 300m away, so this was pretty exciting stuff. I'm sure the reloaders out there know what happens next- for the life of me I couldn't replicate the results with my handloads, despite firstly copying the COAL of the Federal ammo, then varying the powder loads; after a lot of testing and out of frustration I seated the bullet (143 gn ELDX) about as far out as possible which finally produced the results I first achieved witht the factory ammo. I can still feel the satisfaction this bought. So, to the OP, have a go with different ammo to see what suits best, and once you start handloading (under careful guidance), experiment with different powder loads and projectiles to find the most suitable load for your rifle - I look forward to hearing how you get on. And if you find that Winchester 140gn works best for you, let me know, I've got 12 rounds you can have!

That's interesting. I've got about 50 of these homeloads that it likes and the recipe for them. I'll just use them sparingly and see if I can get them replicated. Thanks, Pete

Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

Re The round going off as you extracted it.....I thing that's what's called a hang fire!? Which basically means instead of the primer detonating when the fire pin hits it, the primer does a slow burn, sort of like the embers of a fire glowing, then suddenly bursting into flame a few seconds later. I recall a safety protocols from somewhere is, if the round misfires DONT extract it immediately. Count to ten or recite The Lord's Prey, before opening the bolt. Obviously keep the muzzle pointing down range! This might seem ludicrous, but if you have some faulty ammunition and this reoccur, it could scare you for life. Be careful, think safety.

Sounds like this is what happened and sensible advice. I was thinking maybe the firing pin was not striking hard enough but I've fired a few more since with no problems. Pretty unnerving when it happens though.

Re the hangfire, get your face away from the action and open the bolt with you hand in front of the bolt. You want your body parts as far away from the bolt and action as possible, so if it does go bang, all you need is a change of undies and not a new face and fingers.

Greetings again,
There are two groups of causes for hang fires, primer problems and rifle problems. Primers can be old or have very hard cups as some military ammo intended for semi autos. We can't do much about these other than to avoid them. I would be interested to know if the round that hang fired was military, commercial or handload. The rifle problem is a weak firing pin strike. This can be caused by crud around the firing pin spring inside the bolt, a weak firing pin spring or the firing pin dragging on something like rust or excessive head space. The M38 Mauser is a cock on closing type with a long firing pin fall like the Lee Enfield. The spring can't be too strong otherwise it makes the action two hard to close. Some object to this and there is a kit to convert the rifles to cock on opening as mine has. The work to do this includes cutting a cocking ramp into the rear of the bolt. If this is not done properly a light firing pin strike and ignition problems can be the result.
Excessive head space is the result of setting the case shoulder back too far when full length resizing the case. For some reason (likely US arrogance) the US SAAMI headspace dimensions for the 6.5x55, 7x57 and likely others is significantly shorter than the European standards. There are two FL sixing dies in my collection. Both set the shoulder back far too far. For my M38 this amounts to 0.018" for the Redding dies and 0.022" for the Lyman rather than the desirable 0.002". Hornady sell an inexpensive head space comparator that clamps to the lower jaw of your callipers that is a great help in setting up the die not to set the shoulders back, Excess headspace can result in miss and hang fires by softening the firing pin fall and I wouldn't be surprised to find that is the problem here.
Regards Grandpamac.

this misfire/hangfire

when you moved bolt..did the hammer drop??? or had it already dropped as normal????
agree 1000% if you do get one that doesnt go off,keep pointed in safe direction and keep you valuable bits away from back of bolt,PERSONALLY I will open and quickly shut bolt again to recock and fire again...giving primer a double hit...had shotgun years ago with weak hammer and did this often....
if still no bang...open bolt quickly while holding away from body so if it does the worst case senario and fires as action is unlocked..bolt flying backwards and ripping out of action wont take half your face or hand with it.

My target swede was a snob. I never fed it on factory ammo so i dunno about your most likely culprit for your precision issues (rifle based).
but...
i would measure a fired case and get a read on your shoulder to head measurement. Compare that to an unfired factory round and a handload.
See if there is a .008" or more difference. If there is, you might be getting variation due to the extractor button in the bolt face (forcing it to the side of the chamber, with all the extra room?)

I would guess your rifle has a large chamber and this is effecting performance. Easy fixed with reloading of course (if that's all it is).

I point at that because ELDs and x's love a long jump to the lands, so i doubt its seating depth.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings again,
There are two groups of causes for hang fires, primer problems and rifle problems. Primers can be old or have very hard cups as some military ammo intended for semi autos. We can't do much about these other than to avoid them. I would be interested to know if the round that hang fired was military, commercial or handload. The rifle problem is a weak firing pin strike. This can be caused by crud around the firing pin spring inside the bolt, a weak firing pin spring or the firing pin dragging on something like rust or excessive head space. The M38 Mauser is a cock on closing type with a long firing pin fall like the Lee Enfield. The spring can't be too strong otherwise it makes the action two hard to close. Some object to this and there is a kit to convert the rifles to cock on opening as mine has. The work to do this includes cutting a cocking ramp into the rear of the bolt. If this is not done properly a light firing pin strike and ignition problems can be the result.
Excessive head space is the result of setting the case shoulder back too far when full length resizing the case. For some reason (likely US arrogance) the US SAAMI headspace dimensions for the 6.5x55, 7x57 and likely others is significantly shorter than the European standards. There are two FL sixing dies in my collection. Both set the shoulder back far too far. For my M38 this amounts to 0.018" for the Redding dies and 0.022" for the Lyman rather than the desirable 0.002". Hornady sell an inexpensive head space comparator that clamps to the lower jaw of your callipers that is a great help in setting up the die not to set the shoulders back, Excess headspace can result in miss and hang fires by softening the firing pin fall and I wouldn't be surprised to find that is the problem here.
Regards Grandpamac.

Crikey,your a wealth of knowledge!
It was one of the accurate handloads that came with the gun. I've fired a few more with no dramas so not really any the wiser. I'll definitely count to 10 if it happens again and open the bolt away from my face.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings,
Hang fires can be dangerous and were more common with old military ammo in the Lee Enfield. The process if the round does not go bang is to slowly count to ten while controlling muzzle direction before opening the bolt. It can be due to the ammo and sometimes the rifle as well including headspace. Will post on this further later in the day.
Regards Grandpamac.

and also tip the rifle over when opening the bolt so the loading port is aimed at the ground not at the person on the mound beside you.

Originally Posted by Percy Jones

and also tip the rifle over when opening the bolt so the loading port is aimed at the ground not at the person on the mound beside you.

👍

I actually like cock on closing, it makes extraction and ejection easier and was chosen for some military rifles as it's less tiring to operate for a prolonged period which admittedly is unlikely for hunting. The other positive is when you remove the bolt the firing pin spring is not under firing tension. Springs can loose tension if kept under load for prolonged periods this saves you the drama of easing springs and then having to recock manually before replacing the bolt. The downside is that the action is akward to slowly and gently close chambering a round, it's designed to be worked briskly chambering and turning the bolt handle down in one single fluid movement.
Does your rifle still have the last round stop? Where the magazine follower rises up to prevent closing the bolt on an empty chamber. A useful function ensuring you load from the magazine. Oh and I'm a sucker for a nice two stage trigger as well.

Originally Posted by Peter Adams

I just started opening the bolt to take shell out. Went off as I moved the bolt. I may of put it directly into the chamber. I wasn't aware you shouldn't load that way so have learnt something else today! Thank you

Ive had that happen on an older rifle after it had been out in the rain a couple of days.
I think the trigger or firing pin had got hung up and was released when I moved the bolt a little.
In the meantime, take off the stock, clean trigger assembly and bolt with a light oil like CRC 5.56 and blow out with compressed air. Needs to go to a gunsmith soon. People here will suggest one who is good with Carl Gustav.

Always point a firearm in a safe direction.