Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Night Vision NZ Ammo Direct


User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 30 of 30
Like Tree28Likes

Thread: 7mm-08 reloads extraction issue - thoughts please

  1. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    The 'Naki
    Posts
    2,473
    Thks team for the later info and suggestions, will get on to it.
    I know a lot but it seems less every day...

    Due to the exorbitant cost of reloading components, warning shots will not be given.

  2. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Te Awamutu
    Posts
    977
    Doesn't sound like an ammunition problem.
    If the bolt lifts all the way up, the case should come out freely after this. Lifting the bolt up all the way should engage the primary extraction and should move the cartridge back a mm or two. It should then pull easily back.
    Sounds like the rifle is missing primary extraction, or the extractor isn't working properly, take it back if it's new.

    This might not have been a problem for factory rounds as they may be a bit less pressure, but with hand loads loaded closer to max the brass is expanding a bit more and sticking to the chamber walls a bit, primary extraction should be sufficient to provide you the mechanical advantage to get the case moving. Pulling the bolt handle back should be just removing an already extracted piece of brass from the chamber to eject.
    Jhon likes this.

  3. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    helensville nz
    Posts
    4,559
    Quote Originally Posted by Makros View Post
    Doesn't sound like an ammunition problem.
    If the bolt lifts all the way up, the case should come out freely after this. Lifting the bolt up all the way should engage the primary extraction and should move the cartridge back a mm or two. It should then pull easily back.
    Sounds like the rifle is missing primary extraction, or the extractor isn't working properly, take it back if it's new.

    This might not have been a problem for factory rounds as they may be a bit less pressure, but with hand loads loaded closer to max the brass is expanding a bit more and sticking to the chamber walls a bit, primary extraction should be sufficient to provide you the mechanical advantage to get the case moving. Pulling the bolt handle back should be just removing an already extracted piece of brass from the chamber to eject.
    what he said
    Jhon likes this.

  4. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    1,209
    No, my dollar is on excess headspace, as I've had this issue but with a different make of rifle (Rem M7).
    @Jhon , remove firing pin and place a single strip of masking tape over the back (case head, where primer is). If the round still chambers, you have the answer.

    Solution is either use the elongated (sticky) cases that have come out of the rifle, but suffer shorter case life, set the barrel back or return to point of purchase with headspace gagues as proof.

  5. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    The 'Naki
    Posts
    2,473
    Quote Originally Posted by caberslash View Post
    No, my dollar is on excess headspace, as I've had this issue but with a different make of rifle (Rem M7).
    @Jhon , remove firing pin and place a single strip of masking tape over the back (case head, where primer is). If the round still chambers, you have the answer.

    Solution is either use the elongated (sticky) cases that have come out of the rifle, but suffer shorter case life, set the barrel back or return to point of purchase with headspace gagues as proof.
    Ok, excuse my ignorance but why remove the firing pin? Won't it be retracted into bolt on cocking as brass is chambered? Educate me...
    I know a lot but it seems less every day...

    Due to the exorbitant cost of reloading components, warning shots will not be given.

  6. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Okawa Hawkes Bay
    Posts
    3,053
    Greetings,
    I am pretty sure the problem in not head space. The quoted loads are pretty stiff so the cases will be expanded to snugly fit the chamber. Very light loads can produce extraction issues if the cases are under size to start with or the chamber has excessive headspace. The pressure is not high enough to fully expand the brass. This is not the case here. Reducing the load to 42 grains for the SST projectiles may help as this will slightly reduce the case expansion.
    GPM.
    Micky Duck and Jhon like this.

  7. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    The 'Naki
    Posts
    2,473
    Thanks GPM, reducing the load is first cab off the rank
    Micky Duck likes this.
    I know a lot but it seems less every day...

    Due to the exorbitant cost of reloading components, warning shots will not be given.

  8. #23
    Member sneeze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    nelson/marlborough
    Posts
    3,430
    Quote Originally Posted by grandpamac View Post
    Greetings,
    I am pretty sure the problem in not head space. The quoted loads are pretty stiff so the cases will be expanded to snugly fit the chamber. Very light loads can produce extraction issues if the cases are under size to start with or the chamber has excessive headspace. The pressure is not high enough to fully expand the brass. This is not the case here. Reducing the load to 42 grains for the SST projectiles may help as this will slightly reduce the case expansion.
    GPM.
    Yes I cant see this being caused by head space either. It is often an issue with the die/chamber relationship. The chamber being on the tight end of the spec and the die on the larger. I talked this through with Harvey Westland some decades ago. Reducing the load should have a positive effect but depending on the tollerances the problem could raise its head again after a few more reloads on the brass depending on the pressure. In Harveys case it was with one of his Bench rest rifles, he checked his dies with pin gauges and tried 4-5 different sets till he found one that would size his cases enough to function reliably at the loads he wanted to run. I sent him a rifle of mine that was also having this issue and he reamed out the chamber wall by a couple of thou which fixed the problem . Iv also used a small base die to good effect in these situations.
    Micky Duck and Jhon like this.
    "You'll never find a rainbow if you're looking down" Charlie Chaplin

  9. #24
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Tauranga
    Posts
    5,140
    Small base dies if you can get them, but the other issue might be a good annealing of the brass. As stupid as it sounds, that might be a cause of this. I had it in an old zkw465 .22 Hornet - hardly something you can get hot loads in! Factory ammo, fine, once fired first reload fine as well. Second and subsequent firings, every second mag at least one would stick and need to be popped out with a cleaning rod. Annealing helped for another couple of reloads.

    Part of the issue with it I suspect is the modern dies are a slightly different profile to the early Euro spec chamber and don't quite resize enough. The was no issue with the chamber or action on that rifle, so there may not be on this one either. I would suggest the third firing thing is a coincidental thing and not witchcraft.
    Jhon likes this.

  10. #25
    Nakihunter
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    New Plymouth
    Posts
    87
    A few thoughts.

    Does he use WD40 or any other CRC spray can lubricant? Some of this stuff forms a sticky film in the rifle. It can gall up firing pin.

    I would give the chamber a good clean & wipe with 3 patches of tissue paper & alcohol.
    Jhon likes this.

  11. #26
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2024
    Location
    Waikouaiti
    Posts
    113
    The giveaway is the case coming free after waiting a few minutes. That to me is soft case expanding with hot load, then when it cools down it releases enough to extract. Ive had it before.

    You can try different brass. I used to get that with a .270 when I used Fiochi brass and the time honoured 60 grains of H4831 with 130g SP. Changed brass brands and all fine. Same velocity and accuracy.
    Micky Duck and Jhon like this.

  12. #27
    Lovin Facebook for hunters kiwijames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Hawkes Bay
    Posts
    7,198
    I have a 308 with similar issue. I backed the load off till it was stupid slow thinking it was too hot but still had the same problem. In the end it was a headspace issue. My chamber is short. Possibly shorter than SAMMI spec. The problem was solved with FL sizing everything hard. Does factory ammo extract ok? It's a fairly full load at 43g.
    Jhon likes this.
    The range of what we think and do is limited by what we fail to notice. And because we fail to notice that we fail to notice, there is little we can do to change; until we notice how failing to notice shapes our thoughts and deeds

  13. #28
    Nakihunter
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    New Plymouth
    Posts
    87
    Just a thought.

    Did you measure all the key data points of the fired cases and compare them? Did anything stand out? How much did the problem case stretch in length and at the base web?

  14. #29
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    The 'Naki
    Posts
    2,473
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakihunter View Post
    Just a thought.

    Did you measure all the key data points of the fired cases and compare them? Did anything stand out? How much did the problem case stretch in length and at the base web?
    Its been on hold until we can get together after.mate had a family bereavement. Elderly person passed so sad but not unexpected. Anyway we are planning on remaking some loads this week. Test them next week. Will measure everything lol
    Micky Duck likes this.
    I know a lot but it seems less every day...

    Due to the exorbitant cost of reloading components, warning shots will not be given.

  15. #30
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    The 'Naki
    Posts
    2,473
    UPDATE.

    So sometimes the simplest things are a great place to start. We remade the last x16 rounds. Pulled the projs, dumped and collected the powder, FL sized the cases just to be totally sure, re-seated the primers, re-loaded the powder charge reduced by 0.2gn and re-seated the projectiles to same depth. Then we went out yesterday and collected goat tails. With goats like maggots on a carcass, mate could take a prone position and empty his 3 round mag with consecutive strings. No extraction issues experienced.

    So on reflection, as suggested above, the difference in seated depth of the 139gn SST projectile vs the 139gn SP Flat Base may well have been the issue with just tipping the pressure to a level that in this rifle caused the action to somehow lock on the 3rd shot in string until cooled a bit. Which does suggest a mechanical issue either with the action/bolt design or a flaw of some sort in this rifle.

    In the end, we found a reliable and accurate load doing the job no issues. And man can those SSTs rip a body up?
    Micky Duck likes this.
    I know a lot but it seems less every day...

    Due to the exorbitant cost of reloading components, warning shots will not be given.

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. .22 extraction issue
    By NO4 in forum Firearms, Optics and Accessories
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 19-02-2019, 03:52 PM
  2. Extraction problems
    By Dermastor in forum Reloading and Ballistics
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 09-04-2018, 01:07 AM
  3. BLR sticky extraction
    By ANTSMAN in forum Reloading and Ballistics
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 11-10-2017, 08:44 PM
  4. Very hard extraction.
    By gadgetman in forum Firearms, Optics and Accessories
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 13-06-2017, 01:01 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Welcome to NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums! We see you're new here, or arn't logged in. Create an account, and Login for full access including our FREE BUY and SELL section Register NOW!!