Thread: AP70N and dacron

Who here has used AP70N and dacron in 303 and other caliber reduced loads? Thanks

Don’t bother with the Dacron, just load, shoot and repeat as needed.

Also check out https://castboolits.gunloads.com

Greetings Three O' Three,
I think that the use of Dacron as a filler is frowned on these days. There are better options including AR2206H and Trail Boss for the .303 depending what velocity level you are after. Pistol and shotgun powders were used at one time for cast and reduced loads but it can be hard to get uniform velocities. If you would like to post what your aims are with reduced loads I and I am sure others can likely help you get started.
Regards Grandpamac.

@grandpamac. I've been using trailboss with excellent results but it's in very sort supply and ADI are in no hurry to make more so I need to broaden my powder range for cast reduced loads. I recently picked up some AP70N for loading 12g and knew it could be used for cast reduced loads so thats the reason for this post, to see what experience other people have had. AR2206H will most likely be my next powder purchase, I've read its good for standard velocity 303 150gr jacketed loads too. I have also been recommended 2205 and 2207 for cast loads.

Dacron and other fillers are still used by some and data sources such as Loaddata still have recipes that include fillers posted. From my own research, not experience I hasten to add, the reason it is now discouraged is that there have been some very nasty incidents of blown guns and personal injuries. That's not the underlying reason tho. The problem is, no-one has been able to consistently reproduce any of the disastrous loads in a lab setting. So there is no known rhyme or reason for a load blowing up in your face. The exact same load that blows for one gun may work faultlessly in others for years. Indeed, in the same gun it finally blows in for many hundreds of rounds prior. So I guess its a bit like Russian roulette. It all depends on your appetite for risk. Just please don't shoot them next to me.

I also wonder if the widespread use of suppressors is not another reason fillers have fallen out of favour.....cant imagine any non burnable fluff inside a can will do much good.

I use Dacron in 303 loads using 13 G Unique as powder position can alter point of impact on the target.Trail boss seems to overcome that problem. I believe AP 70 is very similar in burn rate to Unique and could be position sensitive also. @mickey Duck I use a suppressed 303 and don't notice a problem.

Originally Posted by Three O'Three

@grandpamac. I've been using trailboss with excellent results but it's in very sort supply and ADI are in no hurry to make more so I need to broaden my powder range for cast reduced loads. I recently picked up some AP70N for loading 12g and knew it could be used for cast reduced loads so thats the reason for this post, to see what experience other people have had. AR2206H will most likely be my next powder purchase, I've read its good for standard velocity 303 150gr jacketed loads too. I have also been recommended 2205 and 2207 for cast loads.

Greetings Again,
My cast lead data is quite limited but I see that Lyman used both IMR4227 (close to AR2205) and IMR4198 (close to AR2207) in their .30-40 Krag loads. The .30-40 Krag was a US copy of the .303 so the data would be identical. I think that you will find AR2206H too slow for cast lead. I am getting good results with reduced loads, around the 2,000 fps with jacketed projectiles in both the .30-40 and the .303. I have some cast loads in the blocks using IMR4198 that have yet to be fired.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings Again,
My cast lead data is quite limited but I see that Lyman used both IMR4227 (close to AR2205) and IMR4198 (close to AR2207) in their .30-40 Krag loads. The .30-40 Krag was a US copy of the .303 so the data would be identical. I think that you will find AR2206H too slow for cast lead. I am getting good results with reduced loads, around the 2,000 fps with jacketed projectiles in both the .30-40 and the .303. I have some cast loads in the blocks using IMR4198 that have yet to be fired.
Regards Grandpamac.

IMR4759 is also suitable for reduced loads being a bulky powder. Hogdon publish loads for 30-40 Krag but not for some reason 303B. There may be some around still

Originally Posted by muzza

i use AP70N and dacron filler in subsonic 44 Magnum loads

In a 20" 44 mag barrel, 7.5 gr of AP70N goes at 1050 fps consistently without a filler. Is there any other use for a tin of Belmont Magnum Pistol? Is full house 240gr loads all it's good for?

Originally Posted by outlander

In a 20" 44 mag barrel, 7.5 gr of AP70N goes at 1050 fps consistently without a filler. Is there any other use for a tin of Belmont Magnum Pistol? Is full house 240gr loads all it's good for?

Belmont Mag Pistol is Win 296 which is Hogdon H110
There are published loads for a number of other cartridges including, 17 Hornet, 22 & 22K Hornet, 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 25-20, 32-40, 357mag. Also a goto powder for .410 Bore Shotgun

It is a powder that always has a minimum load given which should be observed. Go below that and really bad things can happen. So not for reduced loads.

AP100, 2205 and BM2 are all good candidates for this.

My recommendation would be to download Gordons Reloading Tool software and learn to use it. Reasonably simple and super useful for figuring out what powders will be useful for unusual situations.

https://www.grtools.de/doku.php

Tested some loads yesterday with 11grns of AP70, small amount of dacron behind a 210 cast pill in a factory primed HXP case. 3 shot 1" group at 30m, not quite subsonic with mild recoil, still needed earmuffs. Not the best loads I've made but still not bad, will look at developing these loads to see if I can improve.

Originally Posted by Three O'Three

Tested some loads yesterday with 11grns of AP70, small amount of dacron behind a 210 cast pill in a factory primed HXP case. 3 shot 1" group at 30m, not quite subsonic with mild recoil, still needed earmuffs. Not the best loads I've made but still not bad, will look at developing these loads to see if I can improve.

I wouldn’t go any higher with a fast pistol powder. That equates to about the same load of unique under the “ED Harris” load. You need to be super careful using fast pistol powders as the spike quickly. You might get better results with 2205/4227 or similar.