Thread: Best adi powder data

Greetings Forestry and All,
I have pretty much given up on using Nick Harvey's load data. During the 1980's and early 1990's Nick Harvey was the only source of data for the ADI powders other than some pamphlets from Mulwex that gave loads but no velocities. The Nick Harvey data is stated in the Warning at the start of the book to been derived from various sources without stating what they were. The data for the discontinued AR2206 appears to have copied Cyril Waterworth's 1970 loads for the earlier and non canister AR2201. The same loads still appeared in Nick Harvey's sixth edition. I assume that this data has never been pressure tested.
The data is also generic for one, sometimes two, projectile weights rather than specific to a particular projectile. This was common 30 years ago before all the trick projectiles we have today were developed. In my opinion we need to use the latest data available, specific to the projectile we plan to load. Some of this data is available on line. If the data does not support the powder we would like to use perhaps we should take that as a warning.
Much has changed in the almost 50 years since I timidly approached my first handloading for my one rifle. Armed with a can of AR2201 and a copy of Cyril Waterworth's Reloading Simplified, the only source of AR2201 data at the time, the first start loads were assembled. Things have moved on since then.
Regards Grandpamac.

Just further echoing Grandpamac's views. I wouldn't trust any of the data in Harvey's book, unless you can corroborate it against modern reloading tables from the main players.
As pointed out, virtually all the loads are copies (stolen) from other sources ie not Harvey's personally tested loads. Although he did do a reasonable job of load development for various pet calibres which were then published in the magazines he used to write for.

I have I think his first edition. In it there are several load corrections done by sticking in bits of paper. This is as bought. Not too inspiring.

The 110 grain load with 2208 when checked roughly in Quickload (keeping in mind QL is a guide only) suggests that at the 45 grain load of 2208 around 15% of the charge is not burned in the barrel.
The predicted velocity for the 45 gr load falls short by 200 fps from that in the book. I used 110 gr Speer, commonly used back then, as a projectile. Other brands/types of profile may show better performance.

On a brighter note, it is unlikely that pressure would be an issue.

Originally Posted by zimmer

Just further echoing Grandpamac's views. I wouldn't trust any of the data in Harvey's book, unless you can corroborate it against modern reloading tables from the main players.
As pointed out, virtually all the loads are copies (stolen) from other sources ie not Harvey's personally tested loads. Although he did do a reasonable job of load development for various pet calibres which were then published in the magazines he used to write for.

I have I think his first edition. In it there are several load corrections done by sticking in bits of paper. This is as bought. Not too inspiring.

The 110 grain load with 2208 when checked roughly in Quickload (keeping in mind QL is a guide only) suggests that at the 45 grain load of 2208 around 15% of the charge is not burned in the barrel.
The predicted velocity for the 45 gr load falls short by 200 fps from that in the book. I used 110 gr Speer, commonly used back then, as a projectile. Other brands/types of profile may show better performance.

On a brighter note, it is unlikely that pressure would be an issue.

Greetings Zimmer,
The thing that made me distrust the NH loads was the .223 loads for AR2206. A spanking new Rem 700 VSSF in .223 had found its way to my house in 2005. I had been loading 26 grains of AR2206 behind the 52 and 55 grain projectiles and getting close to 3,300 fps in my old Brno with a well used leade. My recently aquired NH manual gave a max of 24.5 grains of AR2206 for 3,300 fps. Cautiously some loads with 23 grains were assembled. According to NH these should have given around 3,100 fps but chronographed 2,900 fps in a 26 inch barrel! A bit of digging found an older ADI pamphlet that gave a max of 25.5 grains of AR2206 for 3,260 fps which is what I got a bit later. More digging found that Nick had just copied the old AR2201 data from his 1980 version and failed to update to the later ADI data. Had I not had a chronograph I would not have spotted it.
Regards Grandpamac.

I have NH 3rd....nosler 2nd and 4th? a sierra and about 10 wee paper ones including ADI vitavouri and winchester.....really old mulwex one is gold.... and check online too.....call me anul but like 3 sources of info to roughly tell me same thing before will load case....

correct BUT you wouldnt have had pressure issues and 24.5grns of AR2206h behind projectiles between 45-55grns IS A PLURRY GOOD LOAD......it has been my go to for years n years...20ish...only in last 6 mths have I tweaked loads a little to see what bit more speed will do.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

correct BUT you wouldnt have had pressure issues and 24.5grns of AR2206h behind projectiles between 45-55grns IS A PLURRY GOOD LOAD......it has been my go to for years n years...20ish...only in last 6 mths have I tweaked loads a little to see what bit more speed will do.

Greeting Micky,
Agreed but there are some real hot loads in there as well. ADI and I suspect NH listed a load of 55 grains of AR2213 behind the 140 grain projectile in the 6.5-06 up until about 2000. 3,100 fps was claimed for the load. A cobber who had a 6.5-06 worked up to the load and got close to the velocity. Great load accurate and non of the usual signs of pressure. Just one small problem. Primer pockets wouldn't hold a primer after one shot. Hodgdon and NH dialed back the load to 49.5 grains of the slower AR2213SC with the 140 grain Speer GS projectile after the 6.5-06 A Square came out.
Regards Grandpamac.

45gr min 49gr maxi. Suggest best around 48gr. Speed from 2935 to 3250.

I was also going to make some comments.
I load for a 358win using 308brass. With a 225 gr projectile I have a max load of 49 gr by book data for velocity in the 2450fps range.

So when I look at data saying a max of 45 gr under a 150gr bullet I'm going to ask questions. That's a lot less. (Yes I get that the smaller bore means less bullet to push on)

I also know that with the brass I'm using 48gr is a slightly compressed load let alone 49 or even the 51gr I gave seen suggested of AR2208/Varget in a 308win family case.
So as everyone else has said, look at multiple sources for your reloading data and until you have an understanding of the pressure effects of a longer bearing surface or a thicker copper jacket or solid copper bullet work with data that tells you exactly what bullet they used and use the same bullet.
Z

Originally Posted by ZQLewis

I was also going to make some comments.
I load for a 358win using 308brass. With a 225 gr projectile I have a max load of 49 gr by book data for velocity in the 2450fps range.

So when I look at data saying a max of 45 gr under a 150gr bullet I'm going to ask questions. That's a lot less. (Yes I get that the smaller bore means less bullet to push on)

I also know that with the brass I'm using 48gr is a slightly compressed load let alone 49 or even the 51gr I gave seen suggested of AR2208/Varget in a 308win family case.
So as everyone else has said, look at multiple sources for your reloading data and until you have an understanding of the pressure effects of a longer bearing surface or a thicker copper jacket or solid copper bullet work with data that tells you exactly what bullet they used and use the same bullet.
Z

Greetings Z,
Rather envious of your .358 Win. My son had one which we loaded for using AR2206. I think this sits just a little slower than BM8208 based on test firings I did recently. He got a couple of packets of cartridges from Belmont for a start. These were loaded in unfired 7.62 cases that had been reformed and loaded with the Hornady 200 grain spire point that chronographed about 2,350 fps from the 24 inch barrel. Slow but effective. I also reformed R-P .308 cases. Since I have cases, dies and loaded ammunition I keep my eyes open for a .358W but no luck yet.
Regards Grandpamac.

Hi Grandpamac,
Thanks for that, Have to say i cheated in the end, picked up a cheap $500 Sav 99 in 308 and had it re-barrelled by Trueflight.
Works wonderfully except with the short pistol bullets which can move forward in the mag enough that the bolt face does not engage the case rim on feeding. (Only an issue if a heavy load is shot first )
I use 225gr GK for most hunting over 2208/Varget but do put a lot of trail boss loads through it with either pistol or lead bullets.
Stay about 1 gr under book max and my un-calibrated crony suggests I'm getting 24-2450 from an 20" tube. (optimistic I think)

Will look up data on the BM8208. I would love to find a load for the 180gr spire pointed bullets that gets them going faster but think that would need little faster powder than the 2208.
Z
Sorry about the thread drift.

Greetings All,
Apologies from me also. In penance I remind all that all tested load data for the Hodgdon/ ADI powders can be used for loads for the ADI powders. These are the same powders, made in the same factory, to the same specifications but packed in different bottles with different names. Lots of either may differ as normal. ADI offers a chart showing the identical powders. If you are using ADI powder to load the Barnes or other monolithic or lead free projectiles then the data offered by the relevant projectile manufacturer should be used rather than any other.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by G.I_Joel

Currently rocking 2208 adi powder for my 308. Love trying out new projectiles but I find it frustratingly difficult/long process to find good powder info on different weighted projectiles. Anyone have a go to website - easy to use and navigate rather than scrolling and scrolling to find what I’m after.

Hiya Mate. Try looking here Rifle - ADI World Class Powders and Ammunition. I saw .308 Norma, but you might have to do a bit of scrolling to find .308Win.