Thread: Black Powder Witchcraft. Regulating a BP Double Rifle

Originally Posted by Tedz50

@Micky Duck I cringed at the description funky ball as that mould was made one Saturday morning on a machine made to turn commutators using measurements taken with a steel rule and no gun present so to me it was a marvel of engineering.
It is not a target rifle and got the gun shooting.
Also after more than 40 years of shooting it David pointed out several features I had never noticed before such as the fact that left and right barrels had left and right twist damascus and the twist in the barrel mirrored each other at the muzzle.

my apolagies if I have caused offence..... when looking at these large projectiles I cant help but think of the black cloud shotgun loads that made a revolutionary change to bird shot by putting a ring like saturn has around round shot to make it cut better and fly crooked,opening patterns LOL,,,( insert something about reinventing the wheel here) your tone would suggest you had a hand in making that mould???? maybe you could restore faith by doing so again and making next one a flyturn larger??? now the "shrinking qualities of purelead" was mentioned in calculations..my warped brain doth wonder if something with slightly less or more shrinkage inclined ,may indeed make one or tother indeed much closer to ideal...climate change does induce much shrinkage to certain appendages on these frosty morings

How interesting this is. I would never of dreamed that a belted ball would be a 'thing'.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

my apolagies if I have caused offence..... when looking at these large projectiles I cant help but think of the black cloud shotgun loads that made a revolutionary change to bird shot by putting a ring like saturn has around round shot to make it cut better and fly crooked,opening patterns LOL,,,( insert something about reinventing the wheel here) your tone would suggest you had a hand in making that mould???? maybe you could restore faith by doing so again and making next one a flyturn larger??? now the "shrinking qualities of purelead" was mentioned in calculations..my warped brain doth wonder if something with slightly less or more shrinkage inclined ,may indeed make one or tother indeed much closer to ideal...climate change does induce much shrinkage to certain appendages on these frosty morings

No offense was taken merely pointing out tongue in cheek it was basic engineering to fill a need.
I acquired this gun in I believe 1979 and it did not come with a mould so I made one and although it looked crude it worked I later bought a Brunswick mould but found it was made for the military Brunswick musket.
I am in awe of David's skill and am watching this gun get a whole new life.

Next wet day I will start on cleaning the woodwork
The walnut looks to be a pretty nice piece
Solvents to dissolve the decades of dried on gun oils and a lot of cleaning

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

How interesting this is. I would never of dreamed that a belted ball would be a 'thing'.

As far as I was aware a 'belted ball' was NOT something you wanted... But yes, interesting as. When you see where we came from, the modern gear is quite unreal isn't it?

I guess you would call the Belted Ball a technological dead end.

It had its moment when someone thought it was the answer.
Whitworth rifling was another answer that didn't last

I personally find the odd mechanical rifling systems to be very interesting.
This rifle sits well with my Whitworth as an example of things that were certainly an improvement but were superseded very quickly.

Then there was Henry Rifling, Metford Rifling as the last evolution of BP rifling and Enfield Rifling and others to usher in the smokeless types

Originally Posted by No.3

As far as I was aware a 'belted ball' was NOT something you wanted... But yes, interesting as. When you see where we came from, the modern gear is quite unreal isn't it?

I think the belted ball was well regarded when patches and used in slow controlled fire
But there was no advantage when volley fire was needed because the balls went in un patched.
In which case a musket is just as good and vastly cheaper to produce.

But as I have shown with this Dickson Sporting Rifle, the belted ball when loaded with care and attention ( as any sporting rifle should ) can be a very accurate rifle.

But I marvel at how these barrels were made and the rifling form is so accurate.
Hence the army were never going to choose it despite good trials results

From the section photos shown it looks like a lovely stylish piece, no doubt with good balance. A gentleman's gun

ok so it runs a round ball with a ring of saturn right around it...so....a squat mini with a tit on each side would utilize the rifling the same way...... IF a hole of correct diameter was bored into a block,with two smaller holes bored at 12 n 6;00 before main hole was drilled you would in effect have a short slug with two bumps on each side......maybe??? maybe not feasable.....I just love the concept...its like a rifled slug with the same rifling on barrel.

actually thinking about it..this is the origonal two groove barrel

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

ok so it runs a round ball with a ring of saturn right around it...so....a squat mini with a tit on each side would utilize the rifling the same way...... IF a hole of correct diameter was bored into a block,with two smaller holes bored at 12 n 6;00 before main hole was drilled you would in effect have a short slug with two bumps on each side......maybe??? maybe not feasable.....I just love the concept...its like a rifled slug with the same rifling on barrel.

Well M.D. there was a conical with wings that fitted into two mechanical grooves

I just can't remember what it's called

Here it is
The Russian variation used the Brunswick rifling in the Luttich Rifle and Carbine.

The conical was a slight ballistic improvement
Circa 1843

now THAT would not be that hard to do....

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

now THAT would not be that hard to do....

Can't really see the purpose in a sporting double rifle.
Two 550 grain balls hitting the same place at 50m seems pretty useful.

The army seemed to think their soldiers could hit a man at 1200 yards ( well they often put sights on to that far ) but their hit rate would be very low.

In a sporting double with a rainbow trajectory being able to hit a dinner plate ( or something to go on a dinner plate ) at 100 yards with both barrels is more than enough.

With the Tanner mould I should be able to increase velocity and flatten the rainbow a little

Originally Posted by akaroa1

Next wet day I will start on cleaning the woodwork
The walnut looks to be a pretty nice piece
Solvents to dissolve the decades of dried on gun oils and a lot of cleaning

Attachment 229931

Attachment 229932

yes that will come up a treat