Thread: Defective Winchester LR primers

Originally Posted by headcase

Here is a Winchester Primer from two days ago. .. Right cheek powder burn which matched nicely to the left from a suppressor bullet stike in baffles resulting in a lot of powder being ejected onto the left side of face. ...
Attachment 54913

I can easily understand the powder burn but the bullet striking the suppressor baffles???
Can't begin to see the cause and effect there.

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

That does suck, I thought everyone had given up on those primers years ago.

How does the CCI A17 ammo differ from other 17 ammo?

Im not knowledgeable about that but as I understand it..

+Semi auto version of .17 rifles have been plagued with problems cycling.

+Savage completely redesigned the concept with their A17 semiauto. ( I can confirm they are very easy to take apart and clean, genius in fact, they piss all over Rugers design, and they cycle very well)

+ CCI came to the party and produced the A17 ammo which has about 100fps more velocity than all other .17 ammos available. It also is more accurate than the other brands in the Savage. They what the test revues tell me anyway.

The bullet strike was a separate incident a few days earlier in another rifle. The suppressor had worked loose. Operator error. The little .17 bullet fragmented and punched a couple of holes in the over barrel aluminium. Also managed to eject quite a bit of gas out the back to toward the head of said shooter..

Pays to check those suppressors are wound on tight regularly..

I don't know anything about the Savage A17 but here is my theory on 17hmr semi autos. There are essentially two kinds of semi autos. Blow back and gas. A ruger 10/22 and most things that fire pistol calibers (think WWII semi autos) use a blow back design which essentially is the action is held closed by the recoil spring (it doesn't lock) and when the round goes off it "blows back" the bolt which ejects the round and loads the next. The key to this simple design is that the round is low enough powered that the bolt recoils slowly enough that the pressure has dropped by the time the round is extracted from the chamber.

Gas semis (e.g. ARs) are different in that the bolt locks the chamber closed. The round fires and the action doesn't start to open until the projectile has passed the gas port in the barrel. This then operates a gas piston which unlocks the bolt, ejects the round and loads the next. The key to this design is that the round is higher pressure so needs the delay of the projectile traveling up the barrel to the gas port before the pressure drops enough to safely open the action.

So when the 17 rimfire calibers came out you could buy a factory 10/22 conversion or a kit. This had a bigger bolt handle the weight of which was supposed to be enough to slow everything down so that the higher pressure of the 17hmr round had dropped enough to open the chamber. This basically didn't work and the 17hmr is closer to 223 (needs a gas semi auto) than a 22 rimfire (safe with a blow back semi). Lots of things exploding and those guns stopped being sold.

So I would be interested in how they have solved this in the Savage A17? Is it a blow back or a gas semi? How are they delaying the action from opening long enough for the pressure to drop? Inquiring minds want to know.

"An interrupter lug—or “Chicklet”—on the bolt’s top (arrow) locks into a recess in the A17’s receiver. It keeps the gun locked until its carrier moves under recoil, allowing the bolt to open.""

https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...rimfire-rifle/

Very easy to take apart and works a treat.

I will not use Federal small rifle ever again , after having serious gas cutting on the bolt face on 2 diferent 223 cal rifles .
I am using Winchester SR at the moment , no issues yet , it really depends on what your experience is with certain brand .
I use fed LR Mag , for magnum cals , But the primer brand I use the most over the yrs , has been CCI for most rilfe & pistol use .

Originally Posted by headcase

"An interrupter lug—or “Chicklet”—on the bolt’s top (arrow) locks into a recess in the A17’s receiver. It keeps the gun locked until its carrier moves under recoil, allowing the bolt to open.""

https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...rimfire-rifle/

Very easy to take apart and works a treat.

Thanks thats was a really interested article. Delayed blowback is the answer. Still don't know why you got split necks...

Will be checking the bolt face. Mates rifle

Ouch

Originally Posted by Gibo

Will be checking the bolt face. Mates rifle
Attachment 58247

Factory or reloaded ?

Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

Factory or reloaded ?

Reloaded. About 30 that came with the rifle. I wasn't there when he fired them but knew straight away what it was when he told me what primers they were

Originally Posted by Gibo

Reloaded. About 30 that came with the rifle. I wasn't there when he fired them but knew straight away what it was when he told me what primers they were

Wouldn't be firing anymore of them

Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

Wouldn't be firing anymore of them

Nah my thoughts too. I'll have a nosey at the bolt next time I see him.

I was at my parents the other day and Dad was like oh 'I found a few packets of your primers you left here'. I got all excited thinking they were Fed210's - they weren't ... Winchester eh. I threw them in the bin before he had finished talking. He was so proud that he had found them for me, felt guilty doing that but ah well. Been there - done that.

Originally Posted by Pop Shot

I was at my parents the other day and Dad was like oh 'I found a few packets of your primers you left here'. I got all excited thinking they were Fed210's - they weren't ... Winchester eh. I threw them in the bin before he had finished talking. He was so proud that he had found them for me, felt guilty doing that but ah well. Been there - done that.

I have plenty of Fed 210, 210M, 215 & 215Ms here