Thread: "Extreme Velocity Spread"!

I have had similar velocity spikes when seating projectiles to touch. I have since found that it is better to either jam them by 0.010" or jump them by at least 0.015". I suspect that a combination of the Hornady comparator (+- 0.003") and the usual variation in projectiles (+-0.002"), some of yours will be touching more than others. When seating it pays to measure each round and back off the seating die before seating the next projectile. Also as mentioned try 2217 or 2225. One thing I have found to reduce ES is to use a large rifle primer instead a magnum one, but this was in a couple of 7mmRM's. I used to use a heap of SST's but found quite a large dimension variation in them from box to box, and occasionally within on packet. So I stopped buying them.
The ES you are getting is probably a combination of several slight variations, but seating depth would likely have the biggest effect.

I forgot to add. I also found that SST's can like a large jump. Try seating a few to the canilure. You might be surprised. Good luck.

Originally Posted by Pnumatix

I have had similar velocity spikes when seating projectiles to touch. I have since found that it is better to either jam them by 0.010" or jump them by at least 0.015". I suspect that a combination of the Hornady comparator (+- 0.003") and the usual variation in projectiles (+-0.002"), some of yours will be touching more than others. When seating it pays to measure each round and back off the seating die before seating the next projectile. Also as mentioned try 2217 or 2225. One thing I have found to reduce ES is to use a large rifle primer instead a magnum one, but this was in a couple of 7mmRM's. I used to use a heap of SST's but found quite a large dimension variation in them from box to box, and occasionally within on packet. So I stopped buying them.
The ES you are getting is probably a combination of several slight variations, but seating depth would likely have the biggest effect.

I forgot to add. I also found that SST's can like a large jump. Try seating a few to the canilure. You might be surprised. Good luck.

Gee someone's up early!

Thanks for your input.

My bullet of choice is the 180gr Nosler Ballistic Tip as I've had great results with that over the years with knockdown power out of my .30-06, so because (at this stage) they all shoot around the same 1-1/2", my choice would be the Noslers. I can try a different powder, and seating depth but as I've said, there's so many combinations I'm gonna have to settle on something soon while I still have a barrel left. Poking the Chrony an extra meter or so off the barrel is the first place I'm gonna start with regards to velocity spread (just to see if it's a malfunction with the machine or not) however, that amount of ES is only peculiar to that one string!

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Remington 5R .300 Win Mag

If I were to concentrate on bullet seating depth, what would you recommend? Example if I'm just touch now should I move to say .040" off the lands or what, what would you do?

I mean there's that many variables! There's powder types, bullets, bullet seating depth, neck tension etc, the variables are infinite! Indeed, Tracey Short once commented that, sometimes by the time he's managed to worked up a load that actually "shoots" in his rifle, he's worn out the barrel and it's time to buy a new one and start over!

if your touching now, move back 10tho ,then another 10tho etc
then try 3 shots without a chrony and see if it tightens up
es will shrink with consistancy in prep,
spent about 150 rounds in my 6.5 swede to try lower es ,came down to a lot of extra steps in brass prep
both my tikkas and my savage have liked about 20 tho from lands

talking about concentricity guages why you get two diferent readings between the LNL and the sinclair is that the two measure of different datum points.
the hornady is of the back and very tip and the sinclair of the side of the case, i have run the same ammo over two gauges and they were similar readings so i cant figure out whats going on with yours.
there has been an article about the pros and cons in a magazine a while ago but cant remember the answer!
the advantage with the hornady is you can straighten the round.
I tried straight ammo and bent(.0006) at 600 and there was no discernible difference(3" straight 3.5" bent) so go figure!
You are now entering the realm of sleepless nights and large amounts of fiscal deficit!
It wont be long until you are back at h and f buying some 3pack federal deal!

Originally Posted by Remington 5R .300 Win Mag

What's an Amax like as a hunting bullet? Also, my rifle has 1 in 11.25" twist and may not suit a heavier bullet such as a 208!

The amax at 800yards leaves exit wounds big enough to put your hand in. My 1-11 twist stabilises them but any slower might be pushing it

Originally Posted by 338

The amax at 800yards leaves exit wounds big enough to put your hand in. My 1-11 twist stabilises them but any slower might be pushing it

You are right there Cam, the A-Max just plain works !!!

Originally Posted by 338

The amax at 800yards leaves exit wounds big enough to put your hand in. My 1-11 twist stabilises them but any slower might be pushing it

What are they like closer in guys, say around the 100 - 200 meter mark?

Originally Posted by Pnumatix

I have had similar velocity spikes when seating projectiles to touch. I have since found that it is better to either jam them by 0.010" or jump them by at least 0.015". I suspect that a combination of the Hornady comparator (+- 0.003") and the usual variation in projectiles (+-0.002"), some of yours will be touching more than others. When seating it pays to measure each round and back off the seating die before seating the next projectile. Also as mentioned try 2217 or 2225. One thing I have found to reduce ES is to use a large rifle primer instead a magnum one, but this was in a couple of 7mmRM's. I used to use a heap of SST's but found quite a large dimension variation in them from box to box, and occasionally within on packet. So I stopped buying them.
The ES you are getting is probably a combination of several slight variations, but seating depth would likely have the biggest effect.

I forgot to add. I also found that SST's can like a large jump. Try seating a few to the canilure. You might be surprised. Good luck.

Actually, I'd thought a lot about your comments yesterday, and yours and my findings aren't too dissimilar!

I too have noticed a variation in bullets, even in the Nosler, when changing into a new box, and I have, in the past, backed my seating die off and advanced it with every bullet I seated to compensate for it, and thinking "this is so incredibly odd for one should be able to simply 'set and forget!'"... However, I've also found that you can wind the seater on that last .001" only to find that you get .0025" - .003" and you've over-shot your desired seating depth by one and a half to two thou!

Do you honestly think the Hornady bullet comparator is as much as +- .003" out? I found it to be pretty accurate myself (like, somewhere in the vicinity of .000" out!)

It actually makes sense that if you're operating that close to the lands that some may "Touch" closer than others, as odd as that may sound, so I do see where you're coming from, however, my main action I'll take, regarding velocity spread, is to move the 'Graph' further away from the muzzle next time!

Interestingly enough, the guy I know whose shooting SST's from his 6.5x55 Swedish, and getting 5 shots in well under an inch at 100m, surprised me when he said that he's got them seated about .040" off the lands! Also, I was reading a forum in the States whereby a guy was going on about seating them to the cannelure grove, and people were writing back in, speaking about the marvellous results they were achieving by doing so!

I have seated some .030" off the lands for my next trip to the range, so there's scope for me yet!

Thanks.

Originally Posted by 338

Rl22 and a 208 Amax works well for me

Whats your recipe? And also, is this in a Tikka .300 Winchester magnum? ALSO, what are the Amax's like at closer ranges 100-200m?
Thanks.

Originally Posted by andyanimal31

talking about concentricity guages why you get two diferent readings between the LNL and the sinclair is that the two measure of different datum points.
the hornady is of the back and very tip and the sinclair of the side of the case, i have run the same ammo over two gauges and they were similar readings so i cant figure out whats going on with yours.
there has been an article about the pros and cons in a magazine a while ago but cant remember the answer!
the advantage with the hornady is you can straighten the round.
I tried straight ammo and bent(.0006) at 600 and there was no discernible difference(3" straight 3.5" bent) so go figure!
You are now entering the realm of sleepless nights and large amounts of fiscal deficit!
It wont be long until you are back at h and f buying some 3pack federal deal!

Ha, I'll never go back to Hunting & Fishing for the three pack Federal deal!

Anyway, I am quite aware where each concentricity gauge measures from. I also read about the two somewhere (I think it was on a review of the Hornady Product). One fella pointed out the fact that his Hornady measured quite different to his Sinclair machine and he believed his Sinclair one over the Hornady! I too, when measuring my run-out on the Sinclair Gauge (after straightening it on the Hornady one to within .001") saw that it was as much as .006" out and could witness the bullet wobbling up and down as she went, so I would tend to lean more to the Sinclair than the Hornady! It's also worth a mention that it was a prick of a job even then to straighten the bullet down from .012" to what the Hornady gauge said was .001"!

You also mention you tried straight ammo and bent ammo and there was no discernible difference (3" straight 3.5" bent) however, there's virtually no discernible difference between .000" and .0006" either! Anyway, if you told me that you've tried straight ammo compared with bent ammo .012" and there was no discernible difference at 600m I'd probably believe you anyway as I've come to believe that this "Advanced Handloading" is neigh-upon all a load of S@#T!

Anyway, thanks for your input!

Originally Posted by Remington 5R .300 Win Mag

Whats your recipe? And also, is this in a Tikka .300 Winchester magnum? ALSO, what are the Amax's like at closer ranges 100-200m?
Thanks.

The a-max work fine from 0 to 1200 yrds

Thats why they are so popular.

Originally Posted by Remington 5R .300 Win Mag

Whats your recipe? And also, is this in a Tikka .300 Winchester magnum? ALSO, what are the Amax's like at closer ranges 100-200m?
Thanks.

Devastating at all ranges. In close even better in my opinion. Just like a RPG only faster

Was it a bright sunny day or overcast? Was your chrony in a covered location? I chroyed some 22 pistols at the range once and had the unit under the baffels and i was getting speeds around 800fps to 1100fps and everwhere in between. Had us scratching our heads. In the end we figured that because the chrony was being half shaded by the baffel it was giving pissed up results and after moving it into the sun and putting the wings on, it started to give proper readings. If you read the chrony manual it will make a mention of something like this. Sometimes the simple things can be the problem.

Your Chrony is not exactly reknown for giving accurate results. I'd say thats the majority of your problem. In all honesty the Shooting Chronies are all a bit rubbish.

I dont even REALLY trust the results from my Oehler.

Shoot it at long range and let the actual results speak for themselves. If youre getting vertical stringing then maybe the results are correct, if not, throw that Chrony in the bin.

Oh, and jamming anything will ruin your life. Let them jump and offset any of this having to measure projectiles to the nearest.000000000000001 to aviod causing problems.