Thread: "Extreme Velocity Spread"!

Originally Posted by Proudkiwi

I dont even REALLY trust the results from my Oehler.

Why?

Originally Posted by Proudkiwi

Oh, and jamming anything will ruin your life.

How?

Originally Posted by Remington 5R .300 Win Mag

How?

Did you read the rest of the post?

You commented earlier about how inconsistent some projectiles OAL (or bearing surface) are. Yet knowing this to be fact you still want to load your rounds so that they are right on the lands. If you cant see the potential for pressure spikes in this senario you probably shouldnt be reloading.

Or you can jump them a bit and not have to worry about measuring every projectile to ensure you arent jamming them and getting the corrosponding spikes.

My personal opinion is that reloading is about consistency. I believe that a jump removes one less variable that can lead to potential drama.

In saying all of that, do what ever makes you happy.

Originally Posted by Proudkiwi

Did you read the rest of the post?

You commented earlier about how inconsistent some projectiles OAL (or bearing surface) are. Yet knowing this to be fact you still want to load your rounds so that they are right on the lands. If you cant see the potential for pressure spikes in this senario you probably shouldnt be reloading.

Or you can jump them a bit and not have to worry about measuring every projectile to ensure you arent jamming them and getting the corrosponding spikes.

My personal opinion is that reloading is about consistency. I believe that a jump removes one less variable that can lead to potential drama.

In saying all of that, do what ever makes you happy.

Hmmm, interesting, thanks for your comment!

There does seem to be an obsession with jamming/touching
Some.of mine shoot best with 1mm jump. One with 4.5
20-30 thou, i have found to be a happy medium.for hunting. Generally i default to this and if cant get shooting with different powder charges/burn rates then i play with seating depth etc.
Each to their own how they develop their load however you may have answered your own query in mentioning incomsisemcy of projectile.length/form

Originally Posted by Remington 5R .300 Win Mag

What's an Amax like as a hunting bullet? Also, my rifle has 1 in 11.25" twist and may not suit a heavier bullet such as a 208!

The data I have found says the 300 win mag should be 1-10 twist like most of the Remington 30 cals which gives them an advantage over the Tikkas with the heavier projectiles.

I would be more concerned with your accuracy issues than problematic ES readings.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

The data I have found says the 300 win mag should be 1-10 twist like most of the Remington 30 cals which gives them an advantage over the Tikkas with the heavier projectiles.

I would be more concerned with your accuracy issues than problematic ES readings.

Yeah, look I agree Greg, with regards to my accuracy issues, the Chrony ES (despite the Chrony being set up only 3m from the muzzle) was really a "One Off" with that sort of extreme spread, most of my other strings are generally well behaved, it was just that "One"!.. The accuracy issues, however, I am very concerned about for that's the very reason I bought this rifle and all I'm getting is a "scant" 200fps over my ole Ruger MK11 in .30-06 calibre that's shooting 180 Grain Noslers at 2,800fps with an accuracy of no more that 1-1/2" five shot groups consistently, for nearly twice the weight in rifle! (Geeze there's a lot of sad faces in my camp!)

Um, now yeah, the second thing I agree with you is... that the rifle "Should" be a 1 - 10" Twist, however, interestingly enough I actually did a YouTube Video on my rifle when I first got it, and there I demonstrated (by use of a cleaning rod and insulation tape and a rule of some sort) that my barrel (despite it having 1 in 10" twist written on the outside of it) was actually, as fellow Internet users claimed, a 1 in 11.25" Twist! So I now know first hand that it definitely "IS" a one in eleven point two five inch twist! Go figure that! So, as I say, it may not suit the heavier 208 Grain Projectile!

Remington, you may find the rifle shoots more accurately at longer ranges, assuming the velocity readings were off. What did you do to keep the neck tension consistent? The higher the tension the less consistent it might likely be. Do you have a means of actually measuring the tension? I resorted to lubing bullets so as to eliminate frictional differences that may exist. There was a felt difference in seating force with dry neck and bullet and less but uniform seating force with lubed necks or bullets. I never actually did an accuracy comparison so I can't say it actually works. That was with a 303 Brit so it probably won't apply to your Win Mag.

Get the loads way off the lands, 2-4 mm - it's a Remington - the lead will prob be rough, steep and not inline with the chamber - forget about the lands for now
Will have to drop some powder more than likely as pressure may increase
Jamming a soft bullet generally doesn't work, different with VLDs and those with harder jackets
Lee Factory crimp die will iron out all neck tension issues by applying crimp that's more than the neck - so that can be ruled out immediately

Originally Posted by 303Guy

Remington, you may find the rifle shoots more accurately at longer ranges, assuming the velocity readings were off. What did you do to keep the neck tension consistent? The higher the tension the less consistent it might likely be. Do you have a means of actually measuring the tension? I resorted to lubing bullets so as to eliminate frictional differences that may exist. There was a felt difference in seating force with dry neck and bullet and less but uniform seating force with lubed necks or bullets. I never actually did an accuracy comparison so I can't say it actually works. That was with a 303 Brit so it probably won't apply to your Win Mag.

Hi,
Your first question, regarding my rifle shooting more accurately at longer ranges, yeah, I haven't really tried it at longer ranges yet, that was one of the very next things I was going to try next time I got to the range, just to see if it is actually shooting "Non-Linear" groups!

2nd question, what did I do to keep the neck tension consistent? I turned my case necks and used the same size bushing! I do have a means of actually measuring the tension, so much so that I installed the expander ball on the decapping rod of my Redding 'S' Type Die and it expanded it the same as just using the .331 bush and NO expander, so as it turned out, the neck tension I was using with the .331 bush was no more than simply using a standard sizing die and expander ball, however, I may play around with a thou less tension on future reloads!

Thanks

Originally Posted by Spanners

Get the loads way off the lands, 2-4 mm - it's a Remington - the lead will prob be rough, steep and not inline with the chamber - forget about the lands for now
Will have to drop some powder more than likely as pressure may increase
Jamming a soft bullet generally doesn't work, different with VLDs and those with harder jackets
Lee Factory crimp die will iron out all neck tension issues by applying crimp that's more than the neck - so that can be ruled out immediately

Hi, and thanks for your comments!

It's amazing the different opinions on the lands! Most of the literature I've read states that you should start with the bullet as close to "Just Touch" of the lands as possible, for that's where you usually get your best accuracy! Indeed, when I was working up a load for my beloved Ruger MKII in .30-06 calibre, I found that it shot best at around .005" off the lands, that took it down from about 2-1/2", to 5 shots inside 1-1/2" at 100 meters "consistently"! Now, .010" off the lands, or closer to the lands and the groups started to open up again!

Once I got on "this" forum, however, everyone seems to denounce the closeness to the lands as a means of accuracy!

I must say, I started with factory Remington Core Lokt 180 grain ammo and did a quick measurement on the rounds prior to shooting them of at 100m! The bullet run-out measured between .005" and .012" and the seating depth (yay though I'm not sure just how close to the lands they actually were as I never pulled a bullet and tested it) presented a whopping .0195" discrepancy! They shot a 3-1/2" group!

The problem I'm faced with is... there's that many variables in working up a load (have it just touch the lands, have it .160" off the lands, use different powder, use different amounts of powder, use different projectiles, use different weights of projectiles, I'm sure you get the picture) that, like Tracey Short says, by the time he's actually found a combination that his rifle actually likes, he's worn out the barrel and it's time to install a new one and start again!

I "Boke my Barrel-In" and, with the rounds I've fired so far and with the liberal use of my bore scope I reckon I've more than half worn my barrel already, and that's probably being kind to it! I thought to myself, break-in the barrel (for it did copper foul originally and required a "Fouling" shot) and, being a Remington (especially of this type of rifle) it would shoot any type of ammo straight out of the box... how naïve I was!

Thanks

Send it to someone that does development - couple of smiths worth a mention and a couple of forum members.
You'll find out pretty quick if the gun will shoot or not and prob cheaper in the long run
Some times better to call it quits and move the barrel on than spend hundreds of dollars in powder and pills trying to make it work
It should be pretty easy to get sub inch at then of the day
It may just hate BTs
Tried something else?

Just try another powder. 2217, RL17 or something. I have no idea what the quality of Nosler .300 WM is like maybe it sucks and needs to be sorted.

Originally Posted by Remington 5R .300 Win Mag

What are they like closer in guys, say around the 100 - 200 meter mark?

leathel,has any one mentioned using someone elses scales?what if you scales need calibrating.hope that hasnr already been mentioned.

My 2 cents for what it is worth...

You have way overcomplicated things just keep it simple, put the bore scope away, don't worry about .1-.2 grains of powder in a case that big, & lengths or run out to the nearest .005, change powders, even primers especially with the fast IMR 4350, change projectiles try lighter BTs or Accubonds, if it won't shoot them it is beyond help, change brass, check all the simple stuff, scope, rings, bedding, crown etc, change to shooting 3 shot groups, don't worry about neck tension until it shoots, get some else to shoot it, it recoils do you flinch ?

It is very easy to spend heaps of $$$ on a rifle that won't shoot, instead of admitting defeat & re-barreling it.

The 5R is very similar to the Sendero, generally they shoot very well.....