Thread: Factory loads exceeding reload speeds with less pressure signs

Greetings,
We need to remember that as the body of the case is sized down in the FL die the shoulder is pushed forward. If the die is set to not quite touch the shoulder then it is likely that the case will chamber hard or not at all. It is for this reason that bumping the shoulder back 0.002" (0.05mm) from the fired location is suggested. This is where the Hornady head space comparator gadget as it gives a definite measurement to work to rather than endless tiny adjustments accompanied by much frustration and swearing.
GPM.

Originally Posted by Henry

I don't mean to be picky but 0.1mm is boat load closer to 4 thou than 40. Lets not make it harder for the bloke than it already is

Shite, right you are. Typo my bad! 1mm=0.039+some shrapnel...

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings,
We need to remember that as the body of the case is sized down in the FL die the shoulder is pushed forward. If the die is set to not quite touch the shoulder then it is likely that the case will chamber hard or not at all. It is for this reason that bumping the shoulder back 0.002" (0.05mm) from the fired location is suggested. This is where the Hornady head space comparator gadget as it gives a definite measurement to work to rather than endless tiny adjustments accompanied by much frustration and swearing.
GPM.

Yep correct. But, with variances in these things (and to make it more difficult than it really needs to be) you can end up with a chamber that is longer than the die is fully wound down. I suspect that this is the situation - as I've experienced this exact issue once before. A friend has a BSA Safari Mauser action sporter rebarrelled with a Hawkins barrel in .308Win. This thing is jokingly referred to as the .308&1/2, as it will swallow everything except a field gauge with just the slightest stop short of fully closing on a no-go gauge. Been using it for years with factory ammo none the wiser, reloading was an eye opener. Had to basically treat it like a wildcat and segregate the reloads for it, size them long and run the gauntlet with being able to close the bolt on the body taper as that was the issue with chambering.

If the cases are already short, likely moving the shoulder forward a small amount is only going to help the situation but also you aren't going to know unless you try. It would be worthwhile measuring the fired cases to see if there is any primer protrusion remaining or if they've been squashed back to level with the case head. In that case, measuring a primer cup unfired to fired and seeing what the difference is could be worthwhile. Any event, I would think that this isn't going to be as bad as the BSA I mentioned above - that was quite extreme and in reality needed a skim off the back of the barrel by 1 turn and then a careful clean up of the chamber.

Originally Posted by No.3

Yep correct. But, with variances in these things (and to make it more difficult than it really needs to be) you can end up with a chamber that is longer than the die is fully wound down. I suspect that this is the situation - as I've experienced this exact issue once before. A friend has a BSA Safari Mauser action sporter rebarrelled with a Hawkins barrel in .308Win. This thing is jokingly referred to as the .308&1/2, as it will swallow everything except a field gauge with just the slightest stop short of fully closing on a no-go gauge. Been using it for years with factory ammo none the wiser, reloading was an eye opener. Had to basically treat it like a wildcat and segregate the reloads for it, size them long and run the gauntlet with being able to close the bolt on the body taper as that was the issue with chambering.

If the cases are already short, likely moving the shoulder forward a small amount is only going to help the situation but also you aren't going to know unless you try. It would be worthwhile measuring the fired cases to see if there is any primer protrusion remaining or if they've been squashed back to level with the case head. In that case, measuring a primer cup unfired to fired and seeing what the difference is could be worthwhile. Any event, I would think that this isn't going to be as bad as the BSA I mentioned above - that was quite extreme and in reality needed a skim off the back of the barrel by 1 turn and then a careful clean up of the chamber.

Greetings,
Almost all rifle chambers are longer to datum than a case when sized with the die hard down on the shell holder otherwise the case would not fit. Even at start pressures the case is likely to stretch to fill the chamber. The simplest check is to measure the fired case to datum on the shoulder with the Hornady kit and compare that to a sized case. Job done.
GPM.

Fark you guys make life hard. To the OP go and read that reloading manual. Yes the paper one you just looked at. The answers are there in black n white. Search partial length resizing. I've posted photo ex nosler manual on here before.

Agreed, although if one doesn't have a gauge there are other but more time consuming ways to reach a good result.

The issue I was trying to highlight (probably badly) is that there are possibly quite large differences between the dies and the chamber of the rifle - although in most cases the difference should be minimal. I suspect though that if the cases are short enough and the load light enough to end up with what the OP found, that the cases might be on the short side and continuing to resize like that won't be good for case life.

And without chronograph you won't know velocity.so can just go shoot stuff n be happy...or not depending on OCD levels.

Cheers for all the info, on quick inspection I think I am oversizing the shell in regards to how my FL die was set. I’ll back the die of chuck 45g and go from there. Cheers

This will make MD happy, I'm shooting 150g Gold Dots with 44g 2208, don't care about speed, at 100m it's easily inside an inch. The deer don't care either.

How far is your bullet off the lands compared to the factory load?

Just for the OP's interest.
My 243 bolt action I only neck size stopping just short of the shoulder

My 358 win Lever I bump the shoulder every time, I only have basic relading kit so with the 358 I start with the die wound out a bit and using the first case I progressivly size it, check it in the rifle and then then wind the die in again an 1/8 turn (aprox) until it chambers. I then take another case and check that this one chambers as well given potential for work hardening/springback. If all is good I then do the rest of the brass. I only do small quanties (10-30)at a time so I like to cycle all of them through my lever action.
I also run all my sized brass through a Wlisons case guage. This confirms I'm within tolerace and that my neck length is not too long. (or needs a trim)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLw-_I2tvyk
Z

I noticed the same thing last year when I bought a new .308 also 16''. Got to about 45g of 2208 doing 2550 fps with 150g BT's. 45.5g just ok then 46g and had to lever bolt handle open. The factory 150g nosler BT's I bought when got the rifle shoots 2660 fps with no pressure sign's, it shoots pretty bloody good too so have just been using that.
I did a bit of research at the time and talked to couple of people and come to the conclusion that I would probably be better off using 2206H with the 16'' barrel??

I will try again one day when I find some 2206H.

Any progress? Most of the answers provided assume your process is perfect, for example cases are completely clean of case lube, you have no carbon ring and your chamber is clean because your cleaning regimen is thorough.

So many things to get right before we go down the problem solving rabbit hole

2208 works just fine in short 308s. Sako probably use some form of fairy dust from Aliant in their rounds, they certainly cost enough

We still haven't seen what your cases look like, any ejector stamps? Fouling around the necks? Let's have a look