Thread: A few 375s

Exactly VC. That's why the Lunatic has a 50 degree shoulder not 40 degree. That gives the Lunatic the ability to have a longer body and slightly longer neck than the DCM. So if Greg measures just to the neck shoulder junction the lunatic will hold more water again than the DCM.

The performance advantage of 1gr of water capacity difference would be next to nothing, however they are not the same.

Originally Posted by L.R

This is a copy paste of the text you sent me.

Just formed a piece of jamerson lunatic into DCM brass what an arse to do ... It holds 172.9grains of water so there is about 1 grain difference not 6 .... All BS ....

Since then it has been fired with a projectile in it & not just fireformed it has grown a little as you would expect from a case that went through what this one did to be formed...

Like for like in the same brass they hold about the same amount of water.....half a grain either way is very easy to do, so measuring down the case would be even more inaccurate.

Do you have a piece of 375 DCM & Lunatic brass so you can see for yourself ?

This all started because GD said his 375 Lunatic was the biggest 375/408 Cheytac imp around & said it was 179 grains of water to prove it was the biggest.

We knew the 375 Cheytac imp I had held about 173 grains of water & a standard 375 Cheytac held about 167, we realised it was extremely unlikely for the 375 Lunatic to be 12 grains bigger in water capacity than the standard 375 Cheytac, but without brass we couldn't say for sure, with brass we can say for sure than the 375 Lunatics water capacity is not 179 grains of water as GD said, it is not even close.

Like Chris pointed out we are flogging a dead horse.....time to move on & shoot these big rifles at distances they were meant to be shot, beyond 2000

Originally Posted by L.R

Exactly VC. That's why the Lunatic has a 50 degree shoulder not 40 degree. That gives the Lunatic the ability to have a longer body and slightly longer neck than the DCM. So if Greg measures just to the neck shoulder junction the lunatic will hold more water again than the DCM.

The performance advantage of 1gr of water capacity difference would be next to nothing, however they are not the same.

VC pop around & measure these cases some time please

Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

Since then it has been fired with a projectile in it & not just fireformed it has grown a little as you would expect from a case that went through what this one did to be formed...

Like for like in the same brass they hold about the same amount of water.....half a grain either way is very easy to do, so measuring down the case would be even more inaccurate.

Do you have a piece of 375 DCM & Lunatic brass so you can see for yourself ?

This all started because GD said his 375 Lunatic was the biggest 375/408 Cheytac imp around & said it was 179 grains of water to prove it was the biggest.

We knew the 375 Cheytac imp I had held about 173 grains of water & a standard 375 Cheytac held about 167, we realised it was extremely unlikely for the 375 Lunatic to be 12 grains bigger in water capacity than the standard 375 Cheytac, but without brass we couldn't say for sure, with brass we can say for sure than the 375 Lunatics water capacity is not 179 grains of water as GD said, it is not even close.

Like Chris pointed out we are flogging a dead horse.....time to move on & shoot these big rifles at distances they were meant to be shot, beyond 2000

We are not flogging a dead horse Greg you are.

GD said correctly that his 375 improved is the biggest in NZ. It is bigger than the DCM even if only be one grain.

I really wanted to stay out of this.......
The fact is Mr Duley came on this forum and told us all his case holds 180grns of water. It don't, he's full of shit.
The dcm and lunatic cases are almost identical

Mr Duley knew not to turn that P Chey action into a versico tho... He's pretty clever if you ask me.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

VC pop around & measure these cases some time please

My point was missed, by however many moa the three oh eight would need at 2000.:rolleyes:

If the neck is longer on the lunatic and both the DCM and Lunatic are full to the top of the neck with near as dammit the same weight of water then the lunatic with the longer neck must have less effective case volume.
(because the bullet goes in the neck right?)

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No VC your wrong. The shoulder is steeper. This gives the ability to have either a longer neck a longer body or a bit of both as the lunatic has.

Originally Posted by L.R

Mr Duley knew not to turn that P Chey action into a versico tho... He's pretty clever if you ask me.

I never said he wasn't clever, he is very clever & has a lot to offer the shooting faturnity, but......

If he knew not to put a VM into the P-Chey it was because of his dramas putting the Lunatic into a PL.....

There was little to lose by re chambering that Lunatic.

It will be reborn again soon

Luke do you have a 375 DCM case to compare with the 375 Lunatic ???

Greg. You know I don't have a DCM case. However I have in my phone all the volumes ect that you measured yourself. I can post up more of your texts if you want. Screen shot them even.

If Duncan was one of GD's customers he would have been saved the expense of re chambering that barrel to something that went backwards velocity wise.

Originally Posted by L.R

No VC your wrong. The shoulder is steeper. This gives the ability to have either a longer neck a longer body or a bit of both as the lunatic has.

The necks are basically the same length, the DCM is bigger in diameter at the shoulder than the Lunatic, which removes some of the 50 VS 40 degree shoulder advantage, the Lunatic is bigger in diameter at the base than the DCM where it makes the least diffrence to capacity because of all the brass in the head.

Luke quite obviously you don't have a 375 DCM case to compare to a 375 Lunatic so you are probably relying on something that someone else has told you that doesn't have a 375 DCM case to compare anyway.....

Originally Posted by L.R

Greg. You know I don't have a DCM case. However I have in my phone all the volumes ect that you measured yourself. I can post up more of your texts if you want. Screen shot them even.

If you do Luke please make sure you put all of them up including the chamber ones

Greg stop trying to make it look like they are the same volume, they are not, you admitted it to me via text. The Lunatic is about 1gr bigger.

How about you send me a DCM case and ill measure both to the neck shoulder junction since you don't seem to want to do that yourself. Wonder why......?

Sit in on a third form physics class or primmer 4 maths class.

If they both have the same water capacity FULL TO THE TOP THEN EFFECTIVE CAPACITY MUST BE MINUS AREA DISPLACED BY BULLET! IE THE NECK!
if they are the same and you subtract more from one (because the neck is longer) it will be smaller regardless of shape body taper shoulder angle or hight.

Its splitting hairs but when water capacity is the same to the top of the case longer neck equals less effective capacity.
The only possible variance in this instance to effective capacity is seating depth.
Why would you design a cartridge with a nice long neck and then throat the rifle out so the bullet was barely seated to get more capacity? You wouldn't you would push the shoulder neck junction forward.

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VC the neck is made longer to hold the Bullet straighter and more concentric. The neck length is only a tiny bit longer on the lunatic as KG says. The rest of the extra volume is in the case.

Go round to KG's and measure it. Or better yet stick to reloading for ya 308.