Thread: Fireforming case with cleaning patches and pistol powder

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

I tried all sorts of methods and the best for going from you 30 cal down to 7mm is just necking down the case but not all the way down to the shoulder / neck junction. If a donut ring is left at the base of the neck the case will be tightly held between the bolt face and donut. Just screw the die down a little at a time until the right point is found where cases chamber with a little bit of resistance on the bolt. Remember, with a push feed action the plunger ejector is pushing the case hard forward. If it is short in the chamber most of the stretch will occur at the web and can mean a case head separation - I know this from personal experience
So just load a normal (not hot) load in the trimmed and neck sized cases and shoot

thanks Moa hunter. that's a good tip. I haven't been sizing 7-30 cases for long time, almost forgot how to do it. Seems the cases just last forever! BTW, my gun is a G2 contender so doesn't have a bolt, but I do remember I need force the action to close when load a fireforming case.

Originally Posted by hey

Excellent stuff, thanks Wingman! you have some interesting cartridges there. Is the last one 6mm dasher?

Yip 6mm dasher and .22 Shitstorm

I have a g1 and fire formed new 3030 to 7-30. Tried patches but didn't work great although I should have experimented more and most likely it would have. Instead I annealed the new brass then through the sizer but was half way through before I remembered to check the donut for head spacing while forming since it's an improved case so shoulder is going forward and you need it touching both ends of the case. So I just loaded into the lands a bit. I got some of shootenz cast bullets as I figured they are cheap and a light load of trailboss but not subsonic, around 1300fps did the job well and didn't have to worry about pressure being in the lands. I thought more gentle on the case since 3030 is so thin than a full power load to form. Have had no split necks and formed pretty well, the shoulders did slightly sharpen on the first full load but speed and accuracy were fine. It also gives you loads for practice, sub and shooting rabbits etc.

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Originally Posted by r87mm

I have a g1 and fire formed new 3030 to 7-30. Tried patches but didn't work great although I should have experimented more and most likely it would have. Instead I annealed the new brass then through the sizer but was half way through before I remembered to check the donut for head spacing while forming since it's an improved case so shoulder is going forward and you need it touching both ends of the case. So I just loaded into the lands a bit. I got some of shootenz cast bullets as I figured they are cheap and a light load of trailboss but not subsonic, around 1300fps did the job well and didn't have to worry about pressure being in the lands. I thought more gentle on the case since 3030 is so thin than a full power load to form. Have had no split necks and formed pretty well, the shoulders did slightly sharpen on the first full load but speed and accuracy were fine. It also gives you loads for practice, sub and shooting rabbits etc.

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Thanks r87mm, that's very good information there about forming 7-30 cases. Good to see a fellow contender 7-30 shooter here

Yeah I inherited it from who was to be my father in law. I take it as a just incase when walking rifle and make an attempt at least once a year to shot an animal out of respect for him with it I then let is wife know it's been out and being used and still doing what it did for him.
She seems to appreciate that it's being used as it should. Accounted for itself very admirably the other evening when a sow and 3 weaners came out where they weren't welcome. Least just say 4 rounds and 4 less pigs, a clean for the rifle and a txt to the mother in law. All three of us were happy.

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Originally Posted by r87mm

Yeah I inherited it from who was to be my father in law. I take it as a just incase when walking rifle and make an attempt at least once a year to shot an animal out of respect for him with it I then let is wife know it's been out and being used and still doing what it did for him.
She seems to appreciate that it's being used as it should. Accounted for itself very admirably the other evening when a sow and 3 weaners came out where they weren't welcome. Least just say 4 rounds and 4 less pigs, a clean for the rifle and a txt to the mother in law. All three of us were happy.

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Thanks r87mm, that is an awesome story. A very special gun indeed! I have to admit I have spent countless hours just to admire my contender. Elegant is the word for it.
Take care

Talking to his best mate he said he was an awesome shot with his old 3oh but not so flash in the beginning with the contender. He was a tall man probably 6'2"ish and the contender being so small especially with a 16" barrel. I noticed even me being a bit if a hobbit found it difficult to shoot easily. After a bit of thought I realised even with a low mounted 4x scope there was no cheek weld to speak of with the stock design.
Thinking this could be part of the problem I've recently made a cheek riser of about an inch and it seems to have made it much more consistent to shoot. Might be worth trying if ever you feel you're not shooting to the guns potential.

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Thanks for that. I think in G2 they used a higher cheek stock, which fixed the issue

Originally Posted by Mauser308

Not the seater die, its the bloody Hornady full length sizer dies. Initially I was suspecting an almost full length jammed case and needing to get the case extractor out to sort me problem out, but never actually ended up jamming a case in the die. I took everything apart, cleaned and measured the lot suspecting I had an incorrect part in the works or an expander ball in the wrong place jamming the case, but no. It's both on the resize stroke and the extraction of the case where normally you are just pulling the neck over the expander ball. I tried a case with no expander stem or primer pin in place, no change so it is some weirdity with the die body. Air relief is clear, die is spotlessly clean and case is appropriately lubed shoulder and neck. Expander ball is set up in the right position so no jam up but for some random reason the down stroke requires more horse power than any other die I've used as well. This is to the point that some cases are at the strength limit of the press so that they aren't resizing the case enough to fit into the chamber. This is with .308win, and trying to get once-fired back into a SAAMI-minimum sporting chamber... Milsurp cases - forget it with the Hornady dies just requires too much horsepower to resize fully. Redding bushing die - up down job done no pressure needed the difference is extremely obvious.

It's weird - easiest answer is use another brand of die. Hence going to Redding competition dies, which just work screw in set height and size cases.

And those Lee dies, hmmmmm - good for a case stuck in the chamber in my experience - .22Hornet in a ZKW465 once fired and collect die every time pop out with the cleaning rod. Full length die no issue...

The bushing sizing dies by comparison caliber for caliber, I'm getting under 1thou runout and in most cases less than 1/4thou which is really the limit of my ability to measure things with the flex in the setup as you rotate the case, so as good as the collet die or better and total control of the process. I'm using the full length bushing die with a set of competition shellholders so total control of all dimensions with simple part changes once set. Sizing is mostly neck only with the die set to bump the should only as needed - the only additional steps I have are separate depriming and primer seating (i dropped the deprimer stem out of the die which removes most of the issues). The only other sizing related problem that I have found once is a fat case head.

The bonus with this setup is the fact that without the bushing in you have a fully effective body die and in the odd time you get a case that doesn't resize properly and won't chamber strip the bushing die and can tap the shoulder back on a loaded round. Just done this on a couple of rounds loaded for another rifle - I know what the load is but the cases were sized for an older rifle that's now gone and were too long to fit a SAAMI-minimum chamber. Easy fixed with a body die - which I just happened to have haha.

Thanks for sharing your story Mauser308. I did notice different dimension variations with different brand of full length resizing dies, some are tighter than others, probably that cause the resizing issue, especially with those older cases. personally I don't use full body resize if I can, as I believe the expansion button distort the concentric of the neck. well, I usually use a reddding's body die here (cheap!), and leave the neck resizing to collect.
have a great weekend

Originally Posted by Wingman

Ive found the best method for all my wildcats/Ackley's etc is a full to the brim case of Trailboss then stab it into a candle to seal with a plug of wax. Most cases will form fully this way and its cheaper than fireforming with bullets.
Some of the thicker brass with 40 deg shoulders dont get supper sharp shoulders but they blow forward enough to head space properly for the first proper load which sharpens them up.

Wingman this is excellent info. Would you say this is a viable method to try when going from 243Win to 243 Ackley with new factory brass? (Don't worry, all care no responsibility mate it's all on me). Also is this method messy? Needs cleaning roughly how often in your experience?
I bought a bottle of Bullseye and was going to try the "70% of total case capacity Bullseye and toilet paper plug" method but I am pretty impressed with your trailboss results. Thanks again.Luke

No mess at all, the wax vaporizes.
Will work fine on the .243AI. You cant put enough trailboss in a case even with a heavy bullet seated to get any kind of dangerous pressure, youd be lucky to get 1200fps with a 100gr bullet with a full case of trailboss. Not the case with pistol powder however, about 10gr of AP70 or similar would be about the same pressure as a full case of Trailboss. In the .243 case that's about 14gr.

Buy a hydraulic forming die. It will pay for itself in no time and save heaps on components and mess.
Wish I bought one earlier instead of using every other fire forming process.

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Originally Posted by R93

Buy a hydraulic forming die. It will pay for itself in no time and save heaps on components and mess.
Wish I bought one earlier instead of using every other fire forming process.

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Do you have a ballpark on cost for one of the hydraulic forming dies? I worry a bit about hammering on my press.... Apart from that it seems like a good idea.

Originally Posted by Luke777

Do you have a ballpark on cost for one of the hydraulic forming dies? I worry a bit about hammering on my press.... Apart from that it seems like a good idea.

Around $170 usd for a whidden gunworks one. Hornady make them as well iirc. I hear ya on the worry, but I havent had any issues.
I form mine and run them thru the resizing die and they shoot as good the first load as the rest. When fire forming it took 1 or 2 loads to get where they should be....but I am a bit pedantic

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Originally Posted by R93

Around $170 usd for a whidden gunworks one. Hornady make them as well iirc. I hear ya on the worry, but I havent had any issues.
I form mine and run them thru the resizing die and they shoot as good the first load as the rest. When fire forming it took 1 or 2 loads to get where they should be....but I am a bit pedantic

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It pays to be pedantic mate.
Their website (I just looked now) is quoting 3-4 months lead time on a die after they get the schematics and payment... That's a long wait.... Still, I'll think about it.