Thread: First crack at reloading

U guys are clearly struggling with this one.
Headspace is a nominal measurement. Dies will be a nominal measurement. In the perfect world everything would match but they don't.
When the chamber is being cut the chambering reamer is run into the barrel to a NOMINAL depth. Even headspace gauges vary in length.
It's about managing the headspace u have in your own firearm !!! How do u do that ? I will explain what I do.
I use a Redding Competition Shell Holder Set. These shell holders are graduated in .002" increments. When u begin to Full Length Size ( FLS ) your cases for say rifle/chamber "X" you start with the 'deepest' shell holder e.g. the one that gives u the least case shoulder bump. After performing a FLS on a case, try that case in your chamber by closing the bolt on it. YOU NEED TO REMOVE THE FIRING PIN FIRST otherwise you will be cocking the bolt when u close it and this will seriously compromise your ability to properly feel what's happening. You are trying to feel if u have in fact 'bumped' the shoulder back just enough to allow the bolt to close on that FLS'd case with "one-finger-pressure".
If the bolt is still tight-to-close then pick the next shell holder from the set and FLS the case again, then now try the case again in your chamber to feel if now you have achieved just enough case shoulder bump to get nice easy bolt closing ...........
The whole reason for using the Redding Comp Shell Holder set is that by running the shell holder hard up against the die all the variables of having a dodgy flexy press is taken out of the equation.
A guy of my acquaintance recently had an 'ignition' problem. What was really happening was his shell holder ( the only one he had ) was sizing the case too much. This was not only creating a headspace problem that would likely lead to case separation but the excessive headspace he had created was giving him ignition problems. The solution : tig weld the shell holder up a bit then machine it back in the lathe, to get the right amount of case shoulder bump WITHOUT bumping the shoulder back too far and creating a headspace problem.

Originally Posted by muka88

i am half a grain of ADI book max and i think that hopefully i am coming up to the second accuracy node( groups getting better again)
no signs of pressure.
i was thinking the book max would be a bit conservative , lawyers and all that
i did start at the starting load "safety first", also being supervised by someone with experience in these things

I'd start looking hard at your cases after 3-4 reloads.

Somebody who's pushed theirs hard better chime in here, I've always stayed at the start load or near the middle.

Originally Posted by Max Headroom

I'd start looking hard at your cases after 3-4 reloads.

Somebody who's pushed theirs hard better chime in here, I've always stayed at the start load or near the middle.

I have short barrel syndrome, give me back my velocity! haha

Originally Posted by LRP

U guys are clearly struggling with this one.
Headspace is a nominal measurement. Dies will be a nominal measurement. In the perfect world everything would match but they don't.
When the chamber is being cut the chambering reamer is run into the barrel to a NOMINAL depth. Even headspace gauges vary in length.
It's about managing the headspace u have in your own firearm !!! How do u do that ? I will explain what I do.
I use a Redding Competition Shell Holder Set. These shell holders are graduated in .002" increments. When u begin to Full Length Size ( FLS ) your cases for say rifle/chamber "X" you start with the 'deepest' shell holder e.g. the one that gives u the least case shoulder bump. After performing a FLS on a case, try that case in your chamber by closing the bolt on it. YOU NEED TO REMOVE THE FIRING PIN FIRST otherwise you will be cocking the bolt when u close it and this will seriously compromise your ability to properly feel what's happening. You are trying to feel if u have in fact 'bumped' the shoulder back just enough to allow the bolt to close on that FLS'd case with "one-finger-pressure".
If the bolt is still tight-to-close then pick the next shell holder from the set and FLS the case again, then now try the case again in your chamber to feel if now you have achieved just enough case shoulder bump to get nice easy bolt closing ...........
The whole reason for using the Redding Comp Shell Holder set is that by running the shell holder hard up against the die all the variables of having a dodgy flexy press is taken out of the equation.
A guy of my acquaintance recently had an 'ignition' problem. What was really happening was his shell holder ( the only one he had ) was sizing the case too much. This was not only creating a headspace problem that would likely lead to case separation but the excessive headspace he had created was giving him ignition problems. The solution : tig weld the shell holder up a bit then machine it back in the lathe, to get the right amount of case shoulder bump WITHOUT bumping the shoulder back too far and creating a headspace problem.

That is a quite common occurrence as dies often have in their instructions to wind down to to the shellholder.....which is a "nominal" lenght as actual sizing will depend on brass brand/number of firings/annealings/lube/press stretch.

No need to weld the shell holder tho just wind the die up!

True. I had just given this guy a shell holder set and none worked with them touching the die so we created one that would. Just what I do because it keeps it simple and repeatable.

Originally Posted by muka88

I have short barrel syndrome, give me back my velocity! haha

Hence your desire to find speed. OK.

What you want may come at the cost of short case life. But if you can live with that, then no biggie, I guess.

Make sure you keep your loads close enough to sane pressures so that you get to keep your face and hands in one piece.

Originally Posted by Max Headroom

Hence your desire to find speed. OK.

What you want may come at the cost of short case life. But if you can live with that, then no biggie, I guess.

Make sure you keep your loads close enough to sane pressures so that you get to keep your face and hands in one piece.

Yeah if i dnt hit the swet spot soon il just settle for the last accurate sub moa load, would like 2650fps though. Just coz ,

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

yip its the last line of what you wrote that I cant get my head around.....if the two pieces base and die are touching that MUST be minimum spec so screwing die in further cant make it any smaller/shorter. if the two ARENT touching case should be too long???
sorry for being thick I just cant figure it out.

I have a Rockchucker and a Lyman Crusher11 I thought they were pretty solid but no they do flex about the same I have a Ruger No 1 in 6mmBR tight chambered after a number of reloads the brass needed a full length resize using a small base body die the cases would not chamber thinking I was a little silly I set the press up to cam over some thing I had discounted as of no use but no it does work the cases chamber perfectly I have tried using both press to do this and they both do seem to flex about the same amount, even turning the die past the cam over point doesn't work it has to cam over, I am no engineer so don't ask
I have no idea

Originally Posted by muka88

i am half a grain of ADI book max and i think that hopefully i am coming up to the second accuracy node( groups getting better again)
no signs of pressure.
i was thinking the book max would be a bit conservative , lawyers and all that
i did start at the starting load "safety first", also being supervised by someone with experience in these things

Reloading manuals are pretty conservative compared to 40-50 years ago. Over time I have gradually bought most of the manuals out there and cross reference data. Some manuals have a max that is a minimum load in another book. But as the reloading mantra goes, start low and work your way up. Also at some point if you reload enough, a chronograph is worthwhile to provide another data point. Traditional "pressure signs" are not always accurate.

Originally Posted by muka88

Ill have a try on the weekend.
Just brought lee quick trim.
Need it eventually in any case i suppose.

How meny times approx can you reload brass with a warmish load?

There is no exact science on that. Watch for case necks and shoulders cracking(sometimes the crack can be very slim and hard to spot) and case head separation. One way to check for case head separation is to unfold a paper clip and use the tip to drag lightly along the inside of the brass and if you feel the brass hit any line or dip on the interior case wall the brass is probably headed for case head separation. Also sometimes a faint ring around the brass will be apparent. In time too, brass gets dinged on ejection or hitting the ground or scratched. And then at some point after all this multiple times of resizing, trimming, getting fired in a gun and all that, brass just wears out. If it doesn't look right it probably is not, so then it goes in the recycle bucket.

A general rule of thumb is five to ten times for a case fired in a semi auto and 10-20 times for a case in a bolt gun.

Yes you can anneal your brass but you can get that wrong and it is time consuming. I did the math on it in time and money and right now I don't think it would benefit me.

Originally Posted by muka88

I have short barrel syndrome, give me back my velocity! haha

Well, one aspect to look at is what the round is going to be used for. For instance due to my mountain terrain my shooting range is only 120 meters long, so when I load 308 Winchester/7.62 NATO, I am a couple of grains off of max loads and clock high 2500 to low 2600 feet per second and that works just fine. In this case I'm not sending a 308 bullet 800-1000 meters down range so why waste money on a max load? If I need to do that I have my "war reserve" of a couple of thousands rounds of 7.62 NATO surplus ammo.

Originally Posted by wanneroo

There is no exact science on that. Watch for case necks and shoulders cracking(sometimes the crack can be very slim and hard to spot) and case head separation. One way to check for case head separation is to unfold a paper clip and use the tip to drag lightly along the inside of the brass and if you feel the brass hit any line or dip on the interior case wall the brass is probably headed for case head separation. Also sometimes a faint ring around the brass will be apparent. In time too, brass gets dinged on ejection or hitting the ground or scratched. And then at some point after all this multiple times of resizing, trimming, getting fired in a gun and all that, brass just wears out. If it doesn't look right it probably is not, so then it goes in the recycle bucket.

A general rule of thumb is five to ten times for a case fired in a semi auto and 10-20 times for a case in a bolt gun.

Yes you can anneal your brass but you can get that wrong and it is time consuming. I did the math on it in time and money and right now I don't think it would benefit me.

If i get 10 fires out of brass that will make my unit cost around $1.40 and im happy with that.

Originally Posted by muka88

If i get 10 fires out of brass that will make my unit cost around $1.40 and im happy with that.

I found at about 6 fires neck tention had changed and I lost accuracy. That's with no anealing.

Maybe I'm too simple....
Hornady headspace gauge....
Fire case.
Measure headspace.
Wind die in to match fired head space measurement. Lock the ring. I use to give clearance but matching the fired measurement works fine as I don't have problems
chamering a fired case.
Trim or whatever else you want to do, load, repeat.