Thread: First fail - 6.5mm 143gr ELD-X

Troy, obviously can’t say much without having been there or seeing pictures, but that sounds like a bit of an iffy shot placement to me, the first one.

There was a whole investigation into this on another forum a while back, looking at gralloch of animals shot face on, in the shoulder, lots of those shots didn’t work out as expected. I have first hand experience of this from the Vic High Country with my very good mate and long time hunting partner. He shot a sambar facing on with his T/C Encore .30-06, he went for what he thought would be a raking shot across the vitals but found out the hard way that hitting the front of the shoulder is too far back already and the bullet passed down the side of the critical parts of the heart / lungs. I’ve seen the exact same thing happen in Namibia on springbok too, bullets passing down the side of the ribcage due to deflection from the very shallow angle.

When I shoot an animal that is facing me I go for the point where the brisket meets the neck, that is an almost guaranteed bang-flop. If that’s not available, and I don’t fancy a head shot, I wait.

Like I say, not being there I can’t say for sure but from what you describe, I’d be looking at placement not projecticle performance. Not looking to get all finger pointy, just reflecting on what you describe.

Flyblown, totally understand what your saying and agree to a point. I would have taken the brisket shot if it was available but the animals head was drooping as he was all but asleep and that shot was not on as I really am not a fan of head shots.
I should have been clearer in my previous post that I opened the gut/chest and it was destroyed, soup to coin a phraise. The bullet just missed the heart took all the pipework out of the left lung carried on through and stopped before the back leg. I didnt feel like a swim in what was left of the guts so didnt recover the projectile. Having said that the projectile did not reach the back leg and on a Fallow of any size I would have expected at least a broken leg or exit especially with the energy involved in stopping the bullet. I have taken similar shots on a few deer over the years and have never had one get up from a full length body shot especially when totally at rest.

Just my observations and be taken any which way. As with my previous post the bullet did not fail as the animal died but I have had more consistant results of traditional projectiles.

These kind of conversations are good as we can all learn some thing from each other, especially the less experienced.

Cheers

Troy

Cool well that sounds like the bullet did a good job then. In all the years I’ve been shooting deer and other animals I’ll never ceased to be amazed at what an animal that has been mortally wounded can still achieve with four legs, especially the ones who have been heart shot broadside.

I am still battling with the exit or no exit argument, i.e. which is preferable. Have never been able to properly make my mind up. I don’t do much bush hunting and haven’t often needed to track blood trails too far to be honest. If I’m worried about them getting away on me I shoot them in the neck. For many years I have used 6mm Sierra soft points on deer for the simple reason that they penetrate, partially fragment and dump their energy within the vitals, usually coming to a stop against the hide on the other side. I’ve always been amazed at how wide the radius of damage is internally, there is very little chance of bullet fragments not connecting with something vital if you put it in the right place. They don’t blow up at very close range and you can use them effectively to 3 or 400 m without any difficulties. They have been a fantastic and clean killing bullet for me for 30yrs. I think it also helps not to drive them too fast.

When I’ve run into problems, most often it has been using hard big game bullets on deer or even cattle and pigs. Like I mentioned the other day on scrub cattle in NT, pass throughs were normal unless it hit staunch bone. I had a few runners up there with the Norma Oryx despite pretty good placement, after hitting one bull straight through the lungs and out the other side with a .308 Oryx, and it running well over half a mile, I said fuck this and changed to 180gr Sierra ProHunter soft points and didn’t have any cattle or pigs make more than a few yards after that.

But its very subjective eh, who knows maybe I was just shooting rubbish and decided subconsciously to up my game cos when cattle beast takes more than two steps the ‘straylian blokes don’t miss a chance to rub it in... mind you most of them were freakin’ hopeless. But that’s another story altogether.

So the ELD-X has been a bit of an eye opener, very reliable for me with the one exception. On deer and goats, broadside, it always exits. Which kind of goes against my preferences historically. Shooting an animal long ways, it won’t exit necessarily and if you look at the picture of the 3 bullets and the 3 ranges, you can see why it probably wouldn’t exit sub-300m. I’ve shot big billies face on at close-ish range and pole-axed them but the ELD-X hasn’t exited out the back end. And that’s a good thing to my way of looking at things, I want to do as much damage as possible if I’m shooting them long ways cos I’m concerned about being an inch off either way, which can be a big problem at that angle.

Totally agree.

The exit, no exit thing is quite contentious. Im a bit of a fan of the bullet staying in the animal side of things and dumping all of its energy. Ive mostly done bush hunting and medium weight projectiles at medium velocities have served me very well over the years. Ive had a pretty good run with the 7mm08 with the 140 Sierra hollow points lately. I think Im 15 for 15 or there abouts. But having said that most normal boring out of fashion projectiles have been pretty reliable over the years.

Righto, so I was talking to my mate down in the CNI this arvo looking to set up a goat and spiker trip in the first week of the school hols. So he says did so and so ever get hold of you?

Anyway, long story short, the deer was found by one of the farmhands a couple of days after we left, dead in a drain below a steep cutting into the scrubby spur where the dog worked up. Would have toppled over the edge of an old slip that was cleaned up and cut back years ago. Know exactly where that is. To be fair it was in a proper torrent of rain by the time the dog got near there. I know it’s the same animal cos the description fits perfectly, small runty red male, drilled right through the shoulder, small entry on the right, bigger hole on the left side. And no one else had been anywhere near there. Hoping like hell he took photos, will get hold of him soon hopefully. Being winter the rear end was still good for dog tucker apparently, a short walk from the race, why wouldn’t you?

Bloody glad to know it didn’t last long, didn’t go as far as we thought and probably carked it a few minutes after it disappeared over the ridgeline.

From the very first post. “Does this bullet and others like it eg Accubond LR”
The accubond LR is a completely different constructed bullet.

Fair point. Would it have done anything different though?

I wouldn't make my mind up on one shot as sometimes for reasons unknown things don't go as planned. Yesterday Beeman shot a big red stag at 304 yards dead center on the shoulder, the bullet exited behind the shoulder on the off side, the bullet 143gr ELD X out of a 260. We have shot quite a few animals with various ELD X bullets in different calibers and have found them very good.
This particular stag was different, at the shot he reared up and ran down the steep face (on a clear cut)at the bottom he turned and ran at an angle up the face and when he reached the top of the hill he staggered a bit and fell and rolled back to the bottom.
The insides were mush and the lung on the in going side had massive damage. Maybe if both lungs had been hit he would have dropped sooner. The animal was over 100kg.

Just to add to my posts above. Out of the six animals Ive shot with the 162 ELDX four were not what I would call convincing, to be fair two were very convincing. The animals died alright and that is not in doubt but if you read my previous posts I have described the performance as best as I can.
Since then I have been put onto the 150 grain Sierra spitzer by another forum member and have shot six deer with them and two with the 154 interlock. I have found the traditional lead projectile night and day better the the ELDX, Ive taken game to just under 400 yards with these projectiles. All one shot kills and the animals were down either where they stood or within 20 yards and in very short order.
Of course the above is all conjecture but I can only give my opinion based on my observations.

Troy

Troy, what was the MV of your 7mm RM ELD-X load, and what the approx ranges were for the ELD-X kills you weren't happy about? And can you remember what the ranges were for the Sierra and Hornady kills subsequently? And were you getting exit wounds with the ELD-X?

Thing is, the ELD-X is basically a traditional jacketed lead bullet, but with a hollow point and plastic tip. There's no rocket science to the design. If you were to cut one in half and compare to the Sierra spitzer (I assume GameKing 1913) I wonder if the jacket thickness is much different? Possible explanation is that in 7mm the ELD-X jacket can't deal with the impact velocity of the 7mm Rem Mag? Bullet blow up has been reported at close range with magnums. Just not sure if you're at close range or more like 300m+?

I've not used ELD-X in a Rem Mag, but I have used the 150gr ELD-X in a 7mm08 and that hammered the fat 2 yr old spiker I shot with it. Absolutely flattened him, at about 150m. Impact velocity would have been around 2500fps at a guess.

21.5 inch factory precision hunter at a guess 2850 fps. Mildish load 2213sc load for the 150s chronied at 2888 fps. 154 interlock doing 2915 fps. Nothing over hot and still playing with it a bit but everything shoots under an inch. Ranges from 170 to 370 yards I'm only sharing my observations with the group and have found they aren't for me. I'll be staying with the oldies but goodies. The eldx do fly well I must say. Maybe the eldxm would perform better in the Rem Mag? I always had a good run with Amaxs but that was three Rem Mags ago.

Troy

Originally Posted by berg243

one failure in over 200 I would say is a very good percentage of success rate.sounds like a scrawny animal and not hitting any bone to initiate expansion. I wish I had that success rate.

One muck up outa 200..Cmon there bud that puts Daniel Boone and all of the ol cullers ti shame.
Back in the day we were aloud 3 possibles per day,,shots we were sure hit but not sure,no tails of proof.
One thing I cant get my tongue around with todays modern hunters is the trouble guys go to trying to find the ultimate pill.
Having said that I'm in the process of trying another pill myself so there yi go..you lot have given me the bug lol.
That is a bloody good average mate .