Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Night Vision NZ DPT


User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 24 of 24
Like Tree9Likes

Thread: FL sizing without expander ball

  1. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    193
    Could one of you intelligent people clarify the difference between an expander mandrel and an expander button? The mandrel is the longer expander with gradual slopes, whereas the button is the small ball shaped expander?

  2. #17
    ebf
    ebf is offline
    Mushroom juice ! Hic ! ebf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Above the Hutt
    Posts
    6,872
    Name:  sinclairexpander350.jpg
Views: 425
Size:  28.0 KB

    Above is a photo of expander mandrel.

    Their function is to enlarge the neck diameter very slightly. You typically do that if you are going to turn the necks, or use a bushing die to squeeze the neck down to a known dimension.

    Expander balls pretty much do the same thing, but they are mass-produced items on the decapping pin. So in general, they are not made to the same tolerances, and produce larger runout. Most expander balls screw onto a threaded portion of the decapping pin, the decapping pin itself typically screws into the FL die. So as you can imagine there is a lot of scope for slop and mis-alignment.

    The expander mandrels I have worked with (K&M neck turning), fit into a bored hole in a specific die, and is held in place by a grub screw, so much tighter fit.

    You also get mandrels in collet neck dies. There the mandrel is undersized, so that the petals of the collet squeeze the neck against a known hard surface (the mandrel) to get it to a specific size. One of the tricks you can do with those mandrels is to machine/file/sand them down to a smaller dimension, so that you get tighter neck tension. Kinda like using a smaller bushing...
    Last edited by ebf; 19-09-2019 at 05:50 PM.
    Viva la Howa ! R.I.P. Toby | Black rifles matter... | #illegitimate_ute

  3. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    193
    right, yea that makes sense, thanks. I actually have a K&M mandrel on its way to me with the neck turning tool. Their mandrels are 0.3072", so i could probably flag the expander ball in my die and use that to avoid the issues you raised? Will that give enough neck tension you think? (apologies to original poster for the thread hijack..)
    Last edited by bang; 19-09-2019 at 06:03 PM.

  4. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Hawkes Bay
    Posts
    2,607
    The other issue with ball expounders v mandrels is that balls have greater potential for -pulling- a neck out of line compared to the mandrel which is being pushed -into- the case to do its job.
    10-Ring likes this.

  5. #20
    Fulla
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Cni
    Posts
    1,660
    You could polish the expander ball, even take some size off it if you wish.
    Unless you run the cases over a concentricity gauge, you don't really know if you have a problem.
    If your worried about working the neck.... Anneal.

  6. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Tasman
    Posts
    506
    [QUOTE=bang;896084]right, yea that makes sense, thanks. I actually have a K&M mandrel on its way to me with the neck turning tool. Their mandrels are 0.3072", so i could probably flag the expander ball in my die and use that to avoid the issues you raised? Will that give enough neck tension you think?

    You will probably find that you can push projectiles into the neck by hand and won’t have enough tension to hold them. You either need a bushing neck die to do that or a custom mandrel sized to give 2-3 thou of tension on expanded necks. I think Redding and Forster do them, but don’t quote me.

  7. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    allover
    Posts
    433
    You can get an old full length die, toss the expander, get someone to bore the neck portion of the die die out (not so easy as they are hardened, but I have had it done by a good engineering shop) to just a few thou wider than fired brass neck diameter and then you have a body die. Collet neck dies are good, I got some thinner diameter mandrels for them direct from lee or you can spin them in a drill sand them down a thou or 2 to increase neck tension if needeed. An expander mandrel and a standard die with the guts removed will still be hard work as once the brass has been through the die the neck diameter will still be way under and it can be be relatively hard to push the expander in even if the brass is freshly annealed. Anything that requires excessive force risks bending/deforming the neck.

    I lose a lot of brass in the tussock/scrub. If I get 4x firing out of the majority of my brass i have done well, with my current batch of norma brass I am coming up to the 3rd firing and have less than 60 left.... Within that number of firings a normal die, assuming it doesn't bend the necks is probably as good as anything to get the job done and there is less fluffing about.

  8. #23
    Member zimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Waikato
    Posts
    4,986
    Quote Originally Posted by bang View Post
    right, yea that makes sense, thanks. I actually have a K&M mandrel on its way to me with the neck turning tool. Their mandrels are 0.3072", so i could probably flag the expander ball in my die and use that to avoid the issues you raised? Will that give enough neck tension you think? (apologies to original poster for the thread hijack..)
    @bang
    My 30 cal K&M expander mandrel mics at 0.3086 and cases expanded with it (and even with a small amount of expected springback) will let me push a projectile by hand into the neck. The actual carbide turning mandrel mics at 0.307.

    You really need 0.306 neck id, as others have pointed out.

    If I ever need to expand necks after neck sizing (and with most of my loadings I don't) I use a Lyman M die. Usually the only time I use the Lyman is if I am using flat based projectiles. The M die can be adjusted down sufficiently so that as well as expanding the neck it can slightly flare the opening to make it easier to start the projectile. Use it for loading copper washed swaged lead H&N projectiles in my 7.5 Swiss.
    Last edited by zimmer; 20-09-2019 at 02:47 PM.

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. 7mm expander mandrel
    By cobber in forum Reloading and Ballistics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 18-09-2019, 07:56 PM
  2. Neck sizing, need expander?
    By YosemiteSam in forum Reloading and Ballistics
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 15-02-2019, 09:25 AM
  3. Sinclair Expander Mandrel
    By Dermastor in forum Reloading and Ballistics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-09-2017, 11:08 AM
  4. WTD Redding expander button 284 (7mm)
    By Echo in forum Reloading and Ballistics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-10-2016, 08:32 AM
  5. RCBS puller & FL die expander ball adjustment
    By ebf in forum Reloading and Ballistics
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 15-11-2013, 11:58 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Welcome to NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums! We see you're new here, or arn't logged in. Create an account, and Login for full access including our FREE BUY and SELL section Register NOW!!