Thread: Hangfires with reduced loads

just buy a cheap 223
You should be able to get a single shot cheap or a cheap Norinco or something like a savage axis if you’re willing to drop a little more
Or a mate willing to lend you one
Buy 100 rounds of shitty steel case 55 gn ammo
And a cheap scope
After shooting that for abit he should be able to progress to your 6.5cm without the need for reduced loads
If you look after the 223 you won’t lose much money selling it and the fun it gave would sure make up for any loss

That’s what id do

I will definitely get a 223 at some point in the future. Luckily a mate has just bought a nice wee 223 that I might be able to convince him to lend me for a bit.

Worth looking at this article, praising the old Hercules, now Alliant #2400 powder for reduced rifle loads. Main observation of author is that for some reason #2400 is not sensitive to position in the case, no kapok wadding required etc. He is talking of the universal .30 rifle load though - not 6.5mm or smaller bores.

Cast Bullet Loads for Military Rifles - Article

Id just add fillers like dacron, kapok or creamed wheat would be bad with a supressor.

Originally Posted by GWH

I did a whole bunch of research on yankie websites earlier in the year to suss out some decent reduced loads for both my 260 rem and 7mm08, for mrs and kids etc.

The general consensus was that the H4895 doesnt work that well (loading down to a min of 60% of the max load for any cartridge that has H4895 load data).

And then i spoke with a chap in the US, that got the load data for the factory remington reduced recoil loads, and they used 30gr of IMR4198 behind a 120gr bullet. I did some initial testing in both 260 and 7mm08 at around the 30-32 gr mark, and was getting about 2200-2400 fps velocity in both cartridges.

I also tested the H4895 reduced loads in each rifle, and the IMR4198 reduced loads were way more consistant with far better grouping. I had no such issues with hangfires.

The 6.5CM is not too disimilar to a 260 rem really, im picking you may be able to use the IMR4198 in that too, but it'd pay to do some more homework first.

This sounds like the answer to me. I tried Trail Boss for sub loads but found it gave too great of a velocity spread.

moa hunter the issue I have with that often stated opinion about trail boss is this...... you use trail boss to create a low velocity load for short range work,reduced recoil and subsonic...so you are in effect hamstringing yourself VOLENTERALY to sub 100 yards......at sub 100 yards who gives a flying faaark about velocity spread??? it doesnt matter unless you are trying to headshoot.... trail boss was made for cowboy action shooting eg it replaces black powder.... 25-75yards the difference in drop with 50fps velocity difference is stuff all.... for sub loads to plink or shoot stuff at sub 50 yards with cast projectiles it is the ducks nuts and super easy to load using lee spoons.

Trailboss doesn't just give subsonic velocity. It will give velocities in the 1400-1700fps range depending on cartridge and projectile.

Originally Posted by stug

Trailboss doesn't just give subsonic velocity. It will give velocities in the 1400-1700fps range depending on cartridge and projectile.

Likewise for black powder.

How bad is TB for velocity spread? It may explain why I'm a crap shot...

excuses excuses.....maybe I will try black powder instead...how does it go through a suppressor???

Good to see a thread and advice on lighter loads and the dangers that exist - normally its all about overloading. Good stuff.

Here is some very interesting pages from Finland on Cat's Sneeze / Mouse Fart loads, from 1999. Also some very interesting other stuff. Recommended.

Deals with the desirability of fast pistol type powders, and danger of detonation and barrel chamber rupture from using too small loads!. Really counterintuitive so could catch you out.

Gunwriters' Handloading Subsonic Cartridges, Part 1
Gunwriters' Handloading Subsonic Cartridges, Part 2
Gunwriters' Handloading Subsonic Cartridges, Part 3

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

excuses excuses.....maybe I will try black powder instead...how does it go through a suppressor???

@Micky Duck

Not sure how BP goes through a suppressor. It will enter it all right.

Use "fast" pistol black powder for your reduced loads, as per Finnish link.

well that took some reading.....a few we gems hidden in there including something shootersnz and I have discussed before.....the lenght of barrel VS sound/velocity it confirms what Ive always thought...a longer (than normal/optimal) barrel is slower/quieter the theory as explained in link is the gas pressure generated will push projectile for so far (say 16") along barrel and AFTER that distance its no longer being pushed so is slowing down with friction on rifling and gets quieter (this bit was an eye opener) as the explosion has room to happen so doesnt all happen out the end of muzzle.......how a suppressor works..

this explains why someone with a say 24" barreled .308 will get subsonic load with MORE powder than someone with a say 14" barrel and the 14" barrel developed load will be very slow in longer barrel (and why I am using such a pitiful small amount in my 7.62x39mm with oversized short barrel--stuff all resistance)

Brief update: Had a look at the rifle and cases from the reduced loads yesterday - the bolt face was very sooty. The cases also had some carbon/soot in the extractor groove as clearly they aren't obturating properly with the sub-minimum loads.

Thanks @Cordite for the links - a bit of light reading post-work!

Originally Posted by Steelisreal

Brief update: Had a look at the rifle and cases from the reduced loads yesterday - the bolt face was very sooty. The cases also had some carbon/soot in the extractor groove as clearly they aren't obturating properly with the sub-minimum loads.

Thanks @Cordite for the links - a bit of light reading post-work!

@Steelisreal

Just don't size the cases for a mini-load, perhaps even don't resize the case necks - less obturation required.