Thread: Improving 45-70 ammo with a mandrel

Had to resort to the bell mouth die to get these in which was disappointing. Might give traditional lubing a try with the 460gn. Im forced to seat these so deep i can only fit 40.3gn of 2207 in the case (unchecked). Never shot anthing this heavy so should be fun

Where did you find a 40 gr load of 4227? The heavest load of that in any of my books is 31 grains and that's giving a theoretical speed of 1500 with a 400 gr bullet. I'd be a bit wary of 40 that's for sure .

Current improvement to my 45-70 1885s hunting load is these hollow pointed hard cast powder coated bullets

I just thought it might encourage a little expansion
And it looks cool and less like a lipstick


I reamed a cooler in the lathe to hold the bullets accurately
Hollow is M6 ball end mill
6mm deep

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Where did you find a 40 gr load of 4227? The heavest load of that in any of my books is 31 grains and that's giving a theoretical speed of 1500 with a 400 gr bullet. I'd be a bit wary of 40 that's for sure .

2207.........not 4227 is what I read...

Originally Posted by akaroa1

Current improvement to my 45-70 1885s hunting load is these hollow pointed hard cast powder coated bullets

I just thought it might encourage a little expansion
And it looks cool and less like a lipstick
Attachment 201373

I reamed a cooler in the lathe to hold the bullets accurately
Hollow is M6 ball end mill
6mm deep

these definately need to be tried out......ASAP.... they look the ducks nuts,what weight does it bring them down too???? reading up the 330grn gould projectiles were the ducks nuts,Im guessing the hollow point and extra speed made all the difference,it seems that getting above 1600fps is key to getting extra quick kills..so lighter weights allow faster speeds keeping pressure below the limits for older/weaker actions...if yo uhave made up a gig to ream them, one would guess you could ream them deeper still and reduce more weight???
I would be VERY keen to try some out...must go and rezero rifles ASAP....

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

2207.........not 4227 is what I read...

Opps dyslexia reigns ko(-:

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Opps dyslexia reigns ko(-:

just be careful not to take up anarcy ..you might end up selling your soul to santa!!!!

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

these definately need to be tried out......ASAP.... they look the ducks nuts,what weight does it bring them down too???? reading up the 330grn gould projectiles were the ducks nuts,Im guessing the hollow point and extra speed made all the difference,it seems that getting above 1600fps is key to getting extra quick kills..so lighter weights allow faster speeds keeping pressure below the limits for older/weaker actions...if yo uhave made up a gig to ream them, one would guess you could ream them deeper still and reduce more weight???
I would be VERY keen to try some out...must go and rezero rifles ASAP....

@Micky Duck I must go and stuff them in some brass and try them
Maybe tomorrow when @Marty Henry is supposed to visit

It's a tang sight only in the 1885 45-70 so I doubt I will see much difference in the accuracy

And I haven't weighed them yet but will do

Sorry I would have done all this but I was finishing another rifle re build and now have my 12.7x42R ready for proper hunting

@akaroa1 just finishing packing now

Yep I carefully worked up my rifle even beyond that but I decided to walk it back down due to the posted load data and using the available pc programs QL and GRT. I believe the bergara is stronger than they say but I'm not willing to push my luck. There was a hornady load I used before venturing out this far. Will post in a sec

As I was saying I had previously worked up my loads from the 'trapdoor' category and ventured into the mid range. The H4198 being closest to AR2207. That goes out to 46gn but as you know, this cal is a mongrel for NOT showing pressure many signs.

This next one is from the 1984 Lyman RL handbook (which a kind soul gave me recently) perfect for this stuff as it has cast loads in it. Keeping in mind these polymer jacket or pc bullets aren't to be found in reloading manuals. I take extra precautions when testing these. But there's no point shooting cowboy loads imo just because the break barrel falls into a 'grey zone'. But to be safer I'm using cci200 primers and the recoil I'm currently on is medium (it's a bastard if you go too high anyway)

My cbe mould knocks em out at 430gn using my bhn mix of 13-14 with no check (the checks only being needed to clean the barrel). The beauty of powdercoating is that it likes to fill any gap so you can shoot any profile unchecked if you like.

H110 is the powder I don't think has much use in a bergara OR a lever. There are guys using it but that's gotta be on a knife edge no? Like these home coated pc bullets are wildly variable in nose shape compared to copper jackets. You could jamb into the lands very very easily and then cause a pressure spike..

H110 is the one powder you DO NOT experiment with....stick to factory loads...and there are very few lower loads using it,its near full case or nothing..... it is what it is and you just have to live with it.
2208 seems to be working ok for me...but for lighter power loads the black smelly stuff is hard to beat.

@Micky Duck here are the fairly un scientific results

The solid Black Widow bullets are 403 grains
The M6x6mm hollow pointed ones are 387 grains



They shot to the exact same point as the solid
50m group from standing hasty rest with basic tang rear and globe front with a post insert



So I have drifted the globe a little to the right which should bring the impact to the left
And I have dropped the rear staff half a turn to bring down the group just a little

Will shoot again this afternoon and if it just above the bull then it's locked in and ready to go hunting with