Thread: Load development/Gun Smith

None of the above even begins to touch on your reloading which is why I suggest you try a factory round for consistency before chasing your tail.
Something like hornandy whitetails would be a good start, reasonable price and have shot pretty well MOA or better out of pretty much every rifle I've tried them in, there are so many things in the reloading side of it that can become variables it's hard to know where to start with advice on that front.
I am learning from a friend and I can tell you it's a lot to take in and there are no shortcuts to knowledge and experience.

OK, I have a couple questions and the answers are simply for you to think about?

How many shots in each group?

How much time between each group?

Do you have anything that is as accurate and cheaper to shoot such as a 223?

I have had a few people who are, shall we say, 5 inch group shooters. If they were to put 20 or 30 rounds through a rifle (leaving time between each shot for barrel cooling) then the overall group would be about 5 inches. But sometimes two or three of the shots are closer together and sometimes not so much. I had a 223 and was getting similar results. I would rock up to the range, pt 3 shots down and have a tight clover leaf group and thought - sweet. But my next group would open up or be somewhere else. When I took the time and put 40 rounds down at two separate targets, I got a pair of consistent and even 2 inch groups which is what I was capable of with that rifle. Both groups were about 1.5 inches to the right and about 1.5 inches high. It just so happened that the 1st shots would sometimes cluster together and not necessarily in the same part of the group as last time.

After much practise etc, I know what my groups are. And as such if I need to alter my scope I try to use a 5 shot average if the 1st three seem too good.....

I would suggest getting something like an accurate 223 and spend some time doing a 20 or 30 shot group and see what your shooting is like. You could do it with the 7mRemMag but it will be a lot more expensive.....But if you did this with the 7mmRM afterwards you may be able to see how much is rifle and how much is shooter. (EG if you get a similar group with the 223 and the 7mmRM then you will know that the rifles are fine and it is your groups. If you get different sized groups then one of the rifles may be "better" than the other.

One thing ive also noticed when taking people out is i will sit beside them and watch their face when they fire a shot youd be amazed at how many people close their eyes just before firing off a round when you tell them they dont even know they did it get aimeine to do that with you

Worrying about the time generally makes you shoot shit, as your not relaxing.

Yea have had 2 others have a few shots with the factory ammo and results were very similar to mine, wouldn’t say they were experienced shooters..
No suppressor or brake, have thought about the removable brake option.

Have been shooting it of a bench rest set up that I feel very comfortable on, the plan was to find the load then switch to my bipod/pack and sight it.

Have lightend the trigger right up and feel it breaks real nice.
Been taking my time letting it cool between shots and groups.
Cheers or the tips dannyb will try them.

Started with eld-x and got thick copper fouling at muzzle so copper cleaned it, have switched To Sierra TGK since.

Have recently only been cleaning it after a few groups using hoppes 9 and patches then a dry patch or 2 before firing and normally fire a fouler to be sure.

I’m not doubting I’m the problem but given the range is hard to get to too test loads and shooting techniques it’s a pain with other more important commitments at moe, especially if it’s my novice reloading skills or rifle is playing silly buggers

Cheers for the advice/tips guys

I did question buying a few boxes of factory stuff to find a suitable one before getting into another hobbie/reloading, but have gone deep with reloading so will continue with it for now...

Have my .308 and shoot mates one with more consistent results.

Also started using H1000 then had to switch to 2217 (availability), believed to be the same... but got different FPS and POI

Have you checked that the scope is OK?

Get hold of Jason at 5 Shot Groups if you want someone to do some load development for you.
https://www.facebook.com/5shotgroups/

If you had good groups then you can't repeat them and the scope is on tight then I can only think of a dirty riffle. If you have cleaned the copper out then try carbon killer to get rid of all the carbon. I have the same riffle as you and to be fair I was getting 3 and a half inch groups at 100 meters with factory loads, I reloaded using 70.5 gr of ADI 2217 with 162 gr ELDX a load I was given by a good bugger on this forum. I lightened up the trigger as you have done and I put on a decent scope Swavo Z 5 and now it's deadly. I use carbon killer and it is amazing, it has to be something like that so long as your loads are consistent (question the Lee stuff) but other praise it so who knows. Would be interested in seeing your targets and what the groups are like as it could be as simple as your barrel touching your rest which will throw your shot. There are some very experienced re-loaders and crack shooters on this forum who I thought would be all over this and come up with some good ideas.

I hope you get it sorted mate

yes the factory ammo thing is a good suggestion.....another really GOOD one is to get someone else to load rifle for you and hand it back with round chambered....every now and again they slip in an empty WITHOUT telling you....that will tell you very quickly if you are flinching.
7mm mag is a reasonably big kicking round if you are slightly built or your form isnt spot on the dreaded "starts with F and rhymes with grinch" can make itself known quick smartly.
federal blue box has good reputation as a straight shooting factory load. the roar is still a couple of months away,you have time.

I don't use it though have heard hoppes no 9 is not a particularly effective cleaner.

I'm not a great shot and generally get around 30ml groups...as described above, if I'm shooting a bit shit then I keep plugging rounds till I can "see' my grouping...generally 8 to 12 is good unless I'm having a real shit day.

My advice is

Clean the barrel, clean it again .....then give it another go. Find someone with a borescope and then have a look down it to see how good your copper removal technique really is.

Second plan

Take scope off, check rail screws, to reciever arent moving.

Now put on a different scope, one you know that has a proven track for taking the recoil of your Magnum.

This is all a bit of pissing about, but what you are doing now by merely throwing lumps of copper down the range in the hope of getting a group just isnt working.

So time for a new plan!

What all the above will help to track down is:

1/ the barrel isnt fouled

2/ The mounting system is in order

3/ The scope isnt buggered ( happens)

Many moons ago when the RM was new, a mate had one, stuck on a flash scope and chased all over the paper. Several hundred rounds and a few months later, the scope was dodgy ( right from new )

PS also check the bedding

Oh and the scope was a brand new leupold

Had a simikar problem the ither day but just a muzzle break working loose. It doesn't take much. Gunslik is your friend to sort copper and carbon. I have barrels that do that with hornady. It works well. Eld line can be finicky so I'd say. Berger 168 classic, 150 nosler bt or accubonds and sierra tmk in that order. I used 2225 for the heavier projectiles( above 150) bedding would be my next place to look. If it does shoot good groups then its a small vairable because if it was a serious problem or fault it would never shoot good groups. Sime tikkas weren't quite free floating as they should be especially at the fore end tip. Worth looking at

so whats your shooting setup. Are you shooting off a bench with good front rest and rear bag, or lying prone and roughing it? 7mm Rm aint pleasant to shoot off the bench let alone lying prone. 7mmRM in T3 with fluted barrel is a very light rifle for magnum and will be very lively under recoil so it will be hard to have a repeatable consistent hold unless your really comfortable with the recoil.

Thin barrels tend to have smaller accuracy nodes. Do you think you have found an accuracy node yet? Have you got 3 x 3 shot groups over 0.3-0.5g powder range with same vertical impact point and relatively tight groups.

Have you done a seating test?

Originally Posted by r87mm

Had a simikar problem the ither day but just a muzzle break working loose. It doesn't take much. Gunslik is your friend to sort copper and carbon. I have barrels that do that with hornady. It works well. Eld line can be finicky so I'd say. Berger 168 classic, 150 nosler bt or accubonds and sierra tmk in that order. I used 2225 for the heavier projectiles( above 150) bedding would be my next place to look. If it does shoot good groups then its a small vairable because if it was a serious problem or fault it would never shoot good groups. Sime tikkas weren't quite free floating as they should be especially at the fore end tip. Worth looking at

Yeah I floated my barrel as well and think it's worth doing (not too difficult), I don't think it will be the shooter as you tend to second guess your shooting when things aren't going so well but after 100 or so rounds you will have the recoil etc sorted by now. I tend to think it is something that has been mentioned above and won't be anything too major. I don't have a muzzle break or suppressor on mine and to be fair I don't really notice recoil or noise when shooting at game yet it's deadly. Do as suggested and check scope rings and clean riffle thoroughly then use the load you were getting tight groups and head back to the rang for one more go. Floating the barrel and bedding the action are the other options but the scope itself may not be up to the recoil and that could be your problem, there is something to be said for a good scope.