Thread: New to reloading - to what fraction of a grain do you test new loads? 0.5gr, 0.3gr...

Thanks Gmac. The one i have been playing with to no avail is a BSA E P14 sporter. Barrel a bit naff but you would still think it could be ok (bullets arent keyholing) and you cant get any bullet out far enough to touch the rifling so the throat is probably poos
As in the projectile is only in the neck 1-2mm and barely touching. That is with a 200+gr projectile timattalon lent me.
Chamber is quite large also as cases have no show of fitting the other 303 i will be experimenting with.
Presently Ive tried a couple of projectiles out of the P14 and really only a bush rifle accuracy-3-4" at best. puts a couple close together then throws the rest. Bedded it, and even tried a bunch of pressure under the fore-end. Still the same.
Have a couple of other bullets to try but suspect its a done deal

Originally Posted by csmiffy

Thanks Gmac. The one i have been playing with to no avail is a BSA E P14 sporter. Barrel a bit naff but you would still think it could be ok (bullets arent keyholing) and you cant get any bullet out far enough to touch the rifling so the throat is probably poos
As in the projectile is only in the neck 1-2mm and barely touching. That is with a 200+gr projectile timattalon lent me.
Chamber is quite large also as cases have no show of fitting the other 303 i will be experimenting with.
Presently Ive tried a couple of projectiles out of the P14 and really only a bush rifle accuracy-3-4" at best. puts a couple close together then throws the rest. Bedded it, and even tried a bunch of pressure under the fore-end. Still the same.
Have a couple of other bullets to try but suspect its a done deal

Greetings Again,
One thing worth trying is to re crown the barrel, possibly including shortening is a bit. .303 barrels are often worn at the muzzle from dragging a gritty pull through string across the crown. The first barrel I had in my scoped no4 was badly pitted but still shot well as the crown was OK. It was a mission to clean so I had a near new barrel that had been sitting in the cupboard fitted. Shot the same but cleaning was easy. Most riffles benefit from a re crown. I have a P14 in the cupboard that has been fitted with a target barrel and stock so that is an option as well. I have also found that flat base round nose projectile like the Hornady 174 grain RN shoot well in rough barrels.
Regards Grandpamac.

Back when I had access to a lathe i did just that.
And yes I have a dozen of those to try as well

It has been a while since I worked up a load with a new projectile & caliber for target shooting.
I use ADI2208 for both .223 and .308

With my .223 it was 0.1 gr steps up to the point of pressure signs, then I backed of 0.2 gr.
That load groups well and shoots well.

The last (target) .308 load I worked up was from 41.5 gr to 45.0 gr in 0.3 gr steps.
I found two nodes in that range that grouped well.
Then I retested with 0.1 gr steps from 0.5 gr less to 0.5 gr more around the apparent nodes.

From memory this testing took about 100 rounds and found two accurate nodes that group well.
The nodes are separated by 2.7 grains.
One can be used for shorted ranges (up to 600 yards) and the other longer ranges.
To keep things simple I use to longer range load at both short and long ranges.

Originally Posted by Pav

Thanks for all the responses so far.
Reading through them all, something about skinning a cat springs to mind...
Good to hear how different people approach it.
My reloading sensei (as @caberslash called it) said to me the other day before we began "this is just how I do it, somebody else will do it slightly differently"
How many of you are still loading with the same process and testing etc as when you first began reloading?
I'm guessing not many, as I've already seen from the responses that the process varies depending on many circumstances such as the calibre and purpose eg. Short range hunting round vs. Shooting F class
Cheers

The general process is unchanged, but various ways of getting a good load quicker with less rounds down range changes.

The difference between load development for a hunting rifle and F class rifle is the same, just the process should bequicker for a hunting rifle as you typically aren't chasing the tiniest group possible.

I don't like load development so once I get a 1/2 moa load sorted I'm happy. I don't fancy wasting a box of projectiles on a huge seating depth test if I don't need to

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings Pav,
Your question above got me thinking. Rather than major changes I seem to have refined the process as my understanding of it has increased. Initially I was limited partly by my equipment and partly lack of understanding. Time seems to deal with both of those. I moved from full length re sizing to neck sizing early on to help with brass life but now use minimal full length re sizing for some of the more tapered cases which seems to work better for them. Early on I chased the maximum velocities for my hunting rifles but currently am happy with the softer current book max loads with some exceptions. Rifles used for target shooting and my old soldiers get reduced loads. Interestingly my handloading started with a Lee Loader and a .303 which was none too successful for a number of reasons. Currently 50 years later I am loading for a .303 using a Lee Loader and reduced loads and getting good results. The difference is knowledge.
One thing I do quite differently now is the use of graphs in load development. I plot the load data from different sources on an A4 sheet of graph paper with velocity on the vertical axis and charge on the horizontal. This gives some interesting results. I then plot my chronographed selected start load and you can see how your powder and rifle compares with the various data sets. You need to make an adjustment for barrel length, about 20 fps per inch of difference for the two cartridges you mention.
Last year I wrote some articles that were published on the NZ Guns site. These are now open access so you can read them on line. One talked about graphs and loads for the 6.5 x 55 and there was a two part one on loads for the .308.
Happy to answer any specific questions.
Regards Grandpamac.

Thanks @grandpamac, I have found and read the two parts on 308 last night but can't seem to find the 6.5x55 article. Does anyone have a link they could please share...?
There was something strangely satisfying shooting my own hand loads for the first time last weekend, and fair to say I've now got the reloading bug to go with all the others... can't wait to load some more rounds for the 308 & hit the hills and get started on a load for the Vixen. This week I was offered an old .303 from a hunting buddy so I may need to pick your brain in the near future.
Cheers
Pav

Hey @Pav, this is the same advice I give to anyone about measuring powder...

Scales come in 3 broad categories - beam scales, strain gauge electronic, and force restoration balance scales.

Strain gauge (aka load cell) electronic scales are the cheaper ones. These drift. You can reduce the drift by letting it warm up, keeping it connected to a stable power source etc.

Electromagnetic force restoration balances cost well over $ 1 K. If you want repeatable accuracy down to 0.1 gr, then this is what you need to look at.

Lastly, the humble beam scale can by surprisingly accurate. One trick with them is to raise the scale to eye level, so that your view of the needle is consistent.

Do some reading about "nodes" and try to find the middle of a node, that way minor errors in powder dispensing will not have a drastic effect.

Originally Posted by Pav

Thanks @grandpamac, I have found and read the two parts on 308 last night but can't seem to find the 6.5x55 article. Does anyone have a link they could please share...?
There was something strangely satisfying shooting my own hand loads for the first time last weekend, and fair to say I've now got the reloading bug to go with all the others... can't wait to load some more rounds for the 308 & hit the hills and get started on a load for the Vixen. This week I was offered an old .303 from a hunting buddy so I may need to pick your brain in the near future.
Cheers
Pav

Greetings Pav,
The article showing the graph is in an article called "Managing Component Variations" published March last year. In light of your recent acquisition of a .303 you might also be interested in an article called "Care and Feeding of Old Soldiers" published in May.

One thing I started doing early in my handloading is keeping records.

This is a sheet I drew up in about 1978 once I had been bitten by the handloading bug. I was loading for one rifle, a .308 which I still have, and had just started doing my first load development. I gave a copy to a young hunter starting out handloading a few years later and he is still using them. My son uses an improved version. We all keep hard copy data as this remains if your computer craps itself. Some handloaders just write the loads on the box of cartridges but this leaves no permanent record. I started with one ring binder in 1978 and now there are about eight. As well as the load records load data from the internet, some old targets and relevant notes and articles are in the ring binders. Most of my loads are stored in plastic boxes each with a slip of paper recording what they are. You will develop a system of keeping track of things that suits you, earlier would be better than later especially as the number of rifles you load for grows.

Getting back to the original question my first load development I worked up from the Speer mid load of 41.5 grains of IMR4064 behind a 180 grain Norma projectile to the max of 43.5 grains. The steps were one 1.0 grain followed by two 0.5 grain steps. The loads were fired in one session two shots per load. The impact moved up the target and the shots became closer together as the charge increased. Back home the remaining 32 cases were loaded with the top load ready for hunting. This was October 1979 a rather simpler time.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by ebf

Hey @Pav, this is the same advice I give to anyone about measuring powder...

Scales come in 3 broad categories - beam scales, strain gauge electronic, and force restoration balance scales.

Strain gauge (aka load cell) electronic scales are the cheaper ones. These drift. You can reduce the drift by letting it warm up, keeping it connected to a stable power source etc.

Electromagnetic force restoration balances cost well over $ 1 K. If you want repeatable accuracy down to 0.1 gr, then this is what you need to look at.

Lastly, the humble beam scale can by surprisingly accurate. One trick with them is to raise the scale to eye level, so that your view of the needle is consistent.

Do some reading about "nodes" and try to find the middle of a node, that way minor errors in powder dispensing will not have a drastic effect.

Thanks @ebf for the lowdown on scales. I have been looking at different reloading kit options or deciding whether to piece together my own kit with various components from different manufacturers... so from what you've said I would be better going for say a Redding model #2 beam scale over a Hornady g2-1500 or equivalent lyman electronic scale?

If it was me I would go for the beam scales. Just my opinion, and when it comes to reloading, there are lots of different opinions.

The RCBS scales are good as well, especially if you can find one of the older Ohaus models. I have an old 5-0-5, the 10-10 is great as well.

If starting out I would go along with the advice of a good beam scale and trickler.
However you will eventually get sick of it in a year or so and go electronic. And if you know what your doing technique wise any of the available models out there now are just as capable as beam scales for reloading real world accurate and consistent ammo.


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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings Pav,
The article showing the graph is in an article called "Managing Component Variations" published March last year. In light of your recent acquisition of a .303 you might also be interested in an article called "Care and Feeding of Old Soldiers" published in May.

One thing I started doing early in my handloading is keeping records.
Attachment 158701
This is a sheet I drew up in about 1978 once I had been bitten by the handloading bug. I was loading for one rifle, a .308 which I still have, and had just started doing my first load development. I gave a copy to a young hunter starting out handloading a few years later and he is still using them. My son uses an improved version. We all keep hard copy data as this remains if your computer craps itself. Some handloaders just write the loads on the box of cartridges but this leaves no permanent record. I started with one ring binder in 1978 and now there are about eight. As well as the load records load data from the internet, some old targets and relevant notes and articles are in the ring binders. Most of my loads are stored in plastic boxes each with a slip of paper recording what they are. You will develop a system of keeping track of things that suits you, earlier would be better than later especially as the number of rifles you load for grows.

Getting back to the original question my first load development I worked up from the Speer mid load of 41.5 grains of IMR4064 behind a 180 grain Norma projectile to the max of 43.5 grains. The steps were one 1.0 grain followed by two 0.5 grain steps. The loads were fired in one session two shots per load. The impact moved up the target and the shots became closer together as the charge increased. Back home the remaining 32 cases were loaded with the top load ready for hunting. This was October 1979 a rather simpler time.
Regards Grandpamac.

I can spot Architect handwriting! If not you missed your calling GPM haha