Thread: Powder in Greek HXP .303 MKVII?

After scouring the web and coming up empty bar some speculation, Curious if anyone’s got 100% certainty on what ball powder is in the Greek MKVII 303

It gels well in nearly every rifle I have, and I’m looking replicate the loading precisely.

It is fine ball, 41grains on average and charge-weights vary no more than +-1 in my samples which is fairly decent for the old machinery used, the deer don’t complain about the discrepancy anyway

Likewise if anyone has cracked a spot on MkVII clone loading I’d be keen to pick it up.

Unlikely to be anything commercially available today. And it's a bit of a fools errand tbh. If it shoots well, it does so in spite of 70 year old ball powder, not because of it. There's no way you won't get equally good (or better) results using some ADI extruded powder. 2206H, 2208, maybe 2209.

I loaded some 125gr AK bullets using some spare H335 that went well too.

The memory banks dimly recall the Greek stuff being made by Winchester. Don't remember which factory and could be wrong but would probably narrow down the powder

I’ve read it’s equivalent to W760, but that would mean it’s a very light charge of 41gns

Greetings all,
Ammo manufacturers do not use canister grade powders like you and I. Canister powders are selected and blended so that the speed of each lot is close to all others of the same powder. Manufacturers use bulk lots where the speed can vary more widely. The manufacturers test each lot and vary the charge to produce the same velocity or close to it. Consequently powder from manufactured cartridges will not be anything we have ever heard of and trying to identify it is a fools errand.
GPM.

Cheers all, after scouring some very dated forums
From the early 2000s the ballpark has been narrowed.

its my understanding that during the War, Great Britain contracted to buy ammo produced in the US, and since the US didn't make Cordite, it was loaded with IMR powders, BL-C, and other American powders.(the same stuff the Greeks were producing on American supplied equipment left over from the American production of 303 for the war effort)

After the War, Bruce Hodgdon bought up tons of BL-C powder as surplus. It was originally formulated for the American contract .303 Enfield ammo. Sales were so good, that when the surplus BL-C ran out, Hodgdon arranged to have more made. The new manufactured powder was named BL-C(2), and it's still being sold today.

Next to do is load up some BLC-2 and see what’s going on, based off others experience it will in principle be as close as I can get, and from others results it would appear to be on the money.

Originally Posted by dogmatix

I’ve read it’s equivalent to W760, but that would mean it’s a very light charge of 41gns

the book minimum says 41.3 grains and 2397 fps. i guess it's close enough to mk7 spec

Originally Posted by Billymavs

Cheers all, after scouring some very dated forums
From the early 2000s the ballpark has been narrowed.

its my understanding that during the War, Great Britain contracted to buy ammo produced in the US, and since the US didn't make Cordite, it was loaded with IMR powders, BL-C, and other American powders.(the same stuff the Greeks were producing on American supplied equipment left over from the American production of 303 for the war effort)

After the War, Bruce Hodgdon bought up tons of BL-C powder as surplus. It was originally formulated for the American contract .303 Enfield ammo. Sales were so good, that when the surplus BL-C ran out, Hodgdon arranged to have more made. The new manufactured powder was named BL-C(2), and it's still being sold today.

Next to do is load up some BLC-2 and see what’s going on, based off others experience it will in principle be as close as I can get, and from others results it would appear to be on the money.

I would like to reiterate my point that old dirty ass BL-C(2) is not what's responsible for making that ammo gel well with your rifles. The same as your car will run fine on petrol from Z and NPD, you don't have to keep going to BP out of superstition.

You can use something that doesn't burn like coal at low pressures, isn't known for being highly temperature sensitive, and is perhaps cheaper.

Unless you have a stash of genuine MkVII 174gr flat based spitzers + original primers and brass, you are not duplicating the load anyway.

E.g. I made some 7.5x55 ammo for a K31 and the goal was to emulate GP11. I used a 175gr SMK and StaBall Match, worked it up to the same ~2560fps and it shot bloody great.

Originally Posted by Pommy

I would like to reiterate my point that old dirty ass BL-C(2) is not what's responsible for making that ammo gel well with your rifles. The same as your car will run fine on petrol from Z and NPD, you don't have to keep going to BP out of superstition.

You can use something that doesn't burn like coal at low pressures, isn't known for being highly temperature sensitive, and is perhaps cheaper.

Unless you have a stash of genuine MkVII 174gr flat based spitzers + original primers and brass, you are not duplicating the load anyway.

E.g. I made some 7.5x55 ammo for a K31 and the goal was to emulate GP11. I used a 175gr SMK and StaBall Match, worked it up to the same ~2560fps and it shot bloody great.

I think the idea is that the powder is a known charge amount.

If you buy pulled projectiles from GC and reuse the hxp cases then it is easy to get something to line up with the sights. Sure you could use something else but then you have to muck around trying to get close to 2440 fps etc etc

In my 7.5x55 example, that took a whopping 11 rounds to work out how much would be needed to get the right velocity.

Yep. Have over 800 pulled rounds (cases,primers,projos) some young fella was conned into by some old senile some the range into dumping the powder out of as they were “unsafe” as they are “old” hence why I’m here asking on a “fools errand”

I’ve given him my stock of 303 as I felt bad that another member with no knowledge would provide such terrible advice to a newbie, and will recycle his bits into new rounds for myself.

I have concluded BLC2 is a match, and worked well today and surprisingly isn’t that filthy, but long term will be going IMR 3031 for availability where I am.

Also fairly similar results with Win748 but hard to find local.

Thanks all

I made an equivalent Mark7 load up with greek surplus bullets and brass, and using 2209. Shot very well and bang on velocity wise.

I am all for experimental archeology, but the Greek factory will not have been using surplus powder from WW2. The Greek stuff we have over here was made in the 1980's. If it was a ball powder supplied by Olin it is almost certainly is not the version of w760 that we can buy, for the reasons that Grandpamac has pointed out. Something with the right burn rate that gets the right velocity with a 174 grain FMJ will do the same thing. IMR3031, AR2206, 2208, 2209. Any will do.

Out of interest I know someone local who has 17,000 rounds of Greek surplus .303 in his garage. But he is a mad .303 person such as yourself, and will not sell any of it.