Thread: Projectile performance

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I understand where you coming from moa hunter....... but this game is different for every player....I remember when folks frowned upon others who didnt catch n release every trout....well thats double edged sword,catch it,kill it and eat it is arguably better than stress it out with drawn out fight on light gear and possibly miss handle it on bank and release it hoping it will survive (yes I know lots of folks do it right)
if a fella cleanly kills a deer,they have shown it respect,if they take out decent amount of meat to eat,they have utilised the animal.... maybe it could have been utilised more..but its still a darn sight better than dying with its guts burning out with poison then rotting in a creek feeding nothing but maggots.

And I too understand where you are coming from MD. Where I am coming from is partly a question of personal morality and ethics. The attitude of 'Shoot it through the shoulders and who cares if half the meat is wasted, there's another one round the corner' is to me an abhorrent attitude which shows a general disregard and disrespect for other sentient lifeforms. I believe that a person will gain much greater and deeper personal satisfaction with hunting and their own place and value to society if they make two trips and give away all the meat from the second trip rather than shooting to waste half.
If we consider that the non hunting members of society have as much right and ownership to/of game animals as hunters do, we are privileged
to be allowed to take their share and give nothing back. Doing our best to shoot cleanly and recover as much meat as possible and giving away as much of that as we can is a way of giving back. Full recovery is a legal requirement in most countries

Quoted as per @Moa Hunter .....
If we consider that the non hunting members of society have as much right and ownership to/of game animals as hunters do, we are privileged
to be allowed to take their share and give nothing back. Doing our best to shoot cleanly and recover as much meat as possible and giving away as much of that as we can is a way of giving back.

FFS what a load of shite.....non hunter right of ownership....taking their share....giving back to who? Non hunters??.....blah blah blah

Right then all you fisherman out there, as a non fisherman I demand that you all drop off to my house half of your catch from over the weekend and do so every weekend hereafter since it's my right of ownership ����

Originally Posted by #the creeper

Quoted as per @Moa Hunter .....
If we consider that the non hunting members of society have as much right and ownership to/of game animals as hunters do, we are privileged
to be allowed to take their share and give nothing back. Doing our best to shoot cleanly and recover as much meat as possible and giving away as much of that as we can is a way of giving back.

FFS what a load of shite.....non hunter right of ownership....taking their share....giving back to who? Non hunters??.....blah blah blah

Right then all you fisherman out there, as a non fisherman I demand that you all drop off to my house half of your catch from over the weekend and do so every weekend hereafter since it's my right of ownership ����

Many hunters sour of killing and stop hunting, why is that ? Perhaps it is because they no longer get satisfaction from killing alone and dont have a purpose in killing ? Giving away meat does offer a purpose and deeper satisfaction for a hunter. If you ( or any of the six persons who identify as creeper ) are in need, I will bring you some meat, but no trout this weekend.
A Sand Country Almanac .....

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Many hunters sour of killing and stop hunting, why is that ? Perhaps it is because they no longer get satisfaction from killing alone and dont have a purpose in killing ? Giving away meat does offer a purpose and deeper satisfaction for a hunter. If you ( or any of the six persons who identify as creeper ) are in need, I will bring you some meat, but no trout this weekend.
A Sand Country Almanac .....

Nah all good here for meat MH thanks anyway.

I find it immoral to shoot a deer with only the amount of meat recovery in mind, rather than the quick and humane expiry of it first and foremost even if that means losing some meat from a shoulder shot . . . .

That's what I believe.

Originally Posted by Allizdog

I find it immoral to shoot a deer with only the amount of meat recovery in mind, rather than the quick and humane expiry of it first and foremost even if that means losing some meat from a shoulder shot . . . .

That's what I believe.

I agree with you on the 'quick and humane death', but is a shoulder shot actually a quick death or quicker death ? Just because it will generally drop the animal on the spot because of a 'spinal concussion' does that mean a more immediate death than any other lethal shot where the animal dies of blood loss ?

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

I agree with you on the 'quick and humane death', but is a shoulder shot actually a quick death or quicker death ? Just because it will generally drop the animal on the spot because of a 'spinal concussion' does that mean a more immediate death than any other lethal shot where the animal dies of blood loss ?

Earlier you said we should utilize every part of the deer. Other than head shooting a deer, this is pretty much impossible regardless of what projectile you use. So would you rather the risk of blowing a deers jaw off with a smaller margin of era head shot., all for the sake of saving a few more grams of meat rather than the hilar shot that might cause you some extra meat loss because of the projectile we choose to use but puts the animal down?

Originally Posted by Allizdog

Earlier you said we should utilize every part of the deer. Other than head shooting a deer, this is pretty much impossible regardless of what projectile you use. So would you rather the risk of blowing a deers jaw off with a smaller margin of era head shot., all for the sake of saving a few more grams of meat rather than the hilar shot that might cause you some extra meat loss because of the projectile we choose to use but puts the animal down?

Yes I wrote that I believe we should utilise every part, and to follow my own conscience and belief on this I recover the animals whole most times. The bones feed dogs. With a head shot I aim for the ear hole or the back of the head, neither results in a blown jaw. Only a centre head aim point does that. The base of the neck is a good shot but does ruin a chunk of tasty neck chops, so a centre lung shot is the best compromise imo.
To me a shoulder shot means high shoulder. To me a hilar shot is forward of the shoulder and lower
Of course mistakes will be made, where the animal did not appear to be at an angle and the bullet ends up damaging a leg for example, but this is totally different to intentionally shooting through the shoulder blades with no intention of keeping that meat.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

I agree with you on the 'quick and humane death', but is a shoulder shot actually a quick death or quicker death ? Just because it will generally drop the animal on the spot because of a 'spinal concussion' does that mean a more immediate death than any other lethal shot where the animal dies of blood loss ?

one thing is for sure and for certain.......if you take out them front wheels....animal isnt going far if indeed anywhere...so chances of recovery is very high.....I very seldome take the neck shot after seeing a couple of not so ideal outcomes,but if Im close enough and animal is settled it is on the cards...now headshots...well can count on one hand how often I have headshot a deer,very similar number to how many Ive shot over 350yards....and the only one I can actually remember was done as red yearling was under 150 yards,I was sitting with mighty .223 across my knees and deer had my son with .308 on one side of me 40 yards away(who had just shoulder shot one deer) and mate with another .308 on the other side of me 75 yards away , both ready to finish off animal if my shot wasnt spot on...no fear of that when I have time the .223 is deadly accurate.it was almost a race to squeze off....well I knew I hadnt much time before one of them two did the deed so took shot offered sucessfully.
that was two of the three deer we harvested that evening ,needless to say my knives were busy for a long time that evening,steak in one pile and everything else into mince......no wastage when deer is shot within 75 yards of truck.

as for how quick is death from shoulder shot placed correctly with "enough gun" well I am yet to see deer stand for longer than 20 seconds,most is under 5 and none are still breathing as breathing apparatus are goneburgers pretty much instantly,no blood supply to brain means death is matter of seconds.
my conscious is clear,I sleep well at night.

oh good...I DO NOT intentionally do high shoulder shot...always third to half way up in line with foreleg....as per what books said to do 40 years ago...if it works,and it does,I see no need to change it.

Got to be pretty bloody close to the truck for me to worry about shoulder meat…..farm shooting maybe with an easy carry. DOC land in the middle of nowhere I take back legs, back steaks and sometimes eye fillets. There are so many deer around your time would be better serves shooting another one for the sake of the environment.

Save for a humane kill you simply can not talk in absolutes about hunting ethics. Hunting ethics are contextual. There is always a legitimate counter veiling view.

For me, bullets are designed to kill. A good one should assist with a humane kill. Plenty of organ damage and trauma allow for a margin of error. I will biff a bit of meat or leave it behind for that.