Thread: RCBS Summit - anyone with experience of using one?

Hi,

I'd be keen on hearing from anyone who has some actual experience with the RCBS Summit Press

Yes I know that everyone has another favorite Press and I have read a bunch of reviews from international sources but keen to hear from any locals who have done more than read the same reviews I have. If you like it after experiencing it, why and if not, why not? Would you buy it again starting over? If not, what would you buy?

cheers, J.

Hope their presses are under better quality control than the dies. Purchased a new 243, 3 die set, lot of polishing with emery paper before the neck expansion button would operate as it should. Both neck and FLR oversized and rough.

I was keen on the Summit until I read the negative reviews. Cannot remember the exact issues but it had several. Generally rated quite poorly.
I flagged it away.
Recommend the same.

Edit: A quick look at online reviews and some were happy, others experienced bolts coming loose despite loctite, flex during FLSing giving variable shoulder bump, fatiguing to operate.

But then, you've probably already seen these comments?

Originally Posted by zimmer

I was keen on the Summit until I read the negative reviews. Cannot remember the exact issues but it had several. Generally rated quite poorly.
I flagged it away.
Recommend the same.

Edit: A quick look at online reviews and some were happy, others experienced bolts coming loose despite loctite, flex during FLSing giving variable shoulder bump, fatiguing to operate.

But then, you've probably already seen these comments?

Yes I have read the negative reviews. It seems that for every bad experience there are several good ones with happy customers. Also the neg reviews seem to mostly date back to the first release in 2014.

I am wondering if the difference in reviews comes down to the difference in expectations. It does not seem the ideal press for heavy work, like FL sizing of large cases. No compound linkage for a start, just a heck of a long lever. But I have other presses for that. I plan on rationalizing my press collection next year lol and something else will make way for the Summit if I go ahead. . On the face of it the Summit is attractive for it's top of bench mount, small footprint and precision bullet seating. Yes, I know I can get the latter on other presses. I do note there is plenty of current stock in NZ, which maybe is an indicator of popularity, or of the impact of negative reviews.

Originally Posted by Jhon

Yes I have read the negative reviews. It seems that for every bad experience there are several good ones with happy customers. Also the neg reviews seem to mostly date back to the first release in 2014.

I am wondering if the difference in reviews comes down to the difference in expectations. It does not seem the ideal press for heavy work, like FL sizing of large cases. No compound linkage for a start, just a heck of a long lever. But I have other presses for that. I plan on rationalizing my press collection next year lol and something else will make way for the Summit if I go ahead. . On the face of it the Summit is attractive for it's top of bench mount, small footprint and precision bullet seating. Yes, I know I can get the latter on other presses. I do note there is plenty of current stock in NZ, which maybe is an indicator of popularity, or of the impact of negative reviews.

Yeah when I looked last it was readily available plus in the case of Workshop Inno he has heavily discounted his remaining stock which made me wonder as well.

Well I bought one in the end from Reloaders whoi gave me a slightly better deal and they had a short handle available for it.. plus I could go pick it up. And if it has probs they are local to me. Will set it up today.

I'm using the RCBS summit at the moment.

It is my first press given the good reputation for it's accuracy and run out. However I do experienced some issue as mentioned before, like flexing ram rod, loose nuts and variable shoulder bump.

I've pre-ordered an Forster Co-ax from Robert to take over the sizing job from summit as I'm sick of the variable shoulder bump from it.

Originally Posted by eamars

I'm using the RCBS summit at the moment.

It is my first press given the good reputation for it's accuracy and run out. However I do experienced some issue as mentioned before, like flexing ram rod, loose nuts and variable shoulder bump.

I've pre-ordered an Forster Co-ax from Robert to take over the sizing job from summit as I'm sick of the variable shoulder bump from it.

Good choice. I think you'll find the Co-ax will take over more than just sizing.

@Jhon we do expect a review at some stage aye.

Originally Posted by johnd

@Jhon we do expect a review at some stage aye.

Here ya go. Some disclaimers first: I'm a practical reloader for average distance hunting. And pistol shooting. I don't have any expertise in the real fancy stuff like shoulder bumping, chasing the lands ( or not), concentricity etc. I love it when I can put 4 bullets into touching holes on the range but I'm ok if I can circle my thumb and finger around them. I have a basic understanding of the finer things but the only one I have come close to experimenting with that is not bog standard is seating depth. And I'm just getting started on that.

Out of the box the only assembly is to screw the handle in on your preferred side and and insert the two little screws that hold the primer catcher. I have the handle installed for left hand because of my recent right shoulder surgery.

With one exception it presents as a well made, attractive piece of kit. It is heavy and compact taking up very little space. That Ram is huge! And Smooth! I had no concerns really about the die coming to the shell rather than the other way around. The strange bit, contrary to everything I have read, is the lack of feel when bullet seating, but at the end of the stroke rather than the seating itself. That is a heavy piece the die head, easy to control with the handle and precise. When it comes down the die engages the projectile in seating and it does much of the business of it's own weight. Yes, you have exquisite feel as the pill enters the brass and maybe that is what is important. The strange bit is at the end of the stroke when the linkage cams over. To give a different example, when I use a Lee FCD in my Lee Classic, I can both see how much closure I'm getting in the collet as well as continuously feel the amount of pressure I'm getting to achieve that closure. The Summit achieves the same thing but the cam over gives a totally different sense of feel to me so will have to get used to that. Its like once you have shot a bolt home on chambering a cartridge there is no feel. It's home. If the case won't chamber, the bolt will not go home and you can continue to feel the pressure of trying to close it. That's the exact diff with the cam-over action. It left me wondering at the end of the stoke, after cam-over, did the bullet actually seat fully? The first ones I looked at very suspiciously.

The exception to build quality is the dinky little plastic primer catcher. Yuk! I will be making something up a lot more practical and nicer in brass sheet as soon as I can. It works as intended, whether over the edge of the table or flat on top as I have it. But plastic?

I have the short handle coming but yet to arrive. I have mounted the press to a relatively light table. Just two front bolts seems not enough. Nipped up tho I can tell you that press ain't going nowhere. It sits like a squatting troll! Immovable.

My first task was FL sizing some 6.5x55 PPU brass once fired. The table was a bit rocky but expected. No issue with the press. Difference to say my normal Lee Classic SS is that for the Lee Classic I sit on a stool for all press actions. With the Summit, I find myself standing to resize. Standing there was no issue with leverage - tho 6.5x55 brass is hardly challenging. I struggle to see how the linkage pins would flex, or break as I read online somewhere. If FL sizing big magnum brass I guess its possible. Maybe just not the right press for that job. My largest brass will be 303B. I don't expect an issue but will probably do resizing on the Lee so I can also prime at the same time. The Summit you are unable to prime on. That would be a separate off-press process.

The first bullets to be reseated on the press are some of Rob Walker's @shooternz cast 143gn GC FP at .266 dia. I don't have a case mouth expander option at hand at the moment so this was an interesting exercise where feel was essential. At first I continued with my habit when using a conventional press of guiding the bullet into the mouth of the die with my left hand as I raise the Ram with my right. I soon realised the beauty of the Summit is I can simply sit the bullet square on the case mouth and lower the die over it. I stuffed one up before I figured this out, being the slow learner that I am. I had to trash the projectile but I rescued the case because the feel was such I could stop in time. The bullet had toppled on entry, my fault not the Press or Die, and the case mouth had cut into the shank, dislodging the gas check. I had to dismount the die to retrieve the bullet, then resize the case to cure the slightly distorted case mouth. With primer reseated, a powder recharge and a new bullet and the bullet seated on the case mouth, spare hand out of the way, no prob. The feel allowed me to ease the oversize gas check into the neck and continue seating the bullet with no shaving of the lead. This is a tribute both to the press and the bullet caster. All that was picked up was an occasional scrape of lube. Another couple of thou on bullet dia may have been a diff story. And yes, I'm sure I could have managed just as well with my conventional Lee. This just seemed to be more of a sure thing and it was easy to get into that cherished reloader's rythm.

I didn't feel the Press was under-gunned on the leverage for FL sizing. With it on top of the table it was natural however to stand for the operation. Seating bullets it was just as natural to be sitting. I did not really notice the long handle as an issue. What I did realise is that I will likely leave the handle mounted for my left hand. In the photo you will see I have the Press mounted on the table away from the edge but with enough clearance for the handle to drop down below the edge until the linkage cams over. I have it at a catty-corner angle and I can tell you this is a wonderful orientation for a right hander. My right hand does all the delicate work of dropping and weighing powder, setting the bullet etc. My left hand is on auto operating the press. I am not crossing over myself for any operation which I am always doing with the Lee. My knees don't get in the way so from time to time I can move to relieve my sitting position. With the uncluttered large space around the stationary shell you can see everything. From time to time, on the Lee, I have managed to knock or fumble a charged case off the shell holder with powder going everywhere. I don't see that happening in this set-up at all.

So I hope that is of interest. I am not going to be the likely person to stress test the press to bending or breaking point. The linkage nuts are all nylock on mine so I don't see them loosening but who knows. With a few miles on it I may have a different view. Right now it is a keeper and I'm glad I took the plunge. I will be quitting some older presses next year and am happy to have this instead. I will still have my Lee Classic Cast on hand as well as my Dillon 550B. The Summit, for me, scratches a different itch.

@Jhon great review, should be made into a sticky.

Update.

I received the short handle today which is an optional extra for about $36. Designed for bullet seating operations not needing the amount of leverage FL sizing does. After trying it out, I can see how it would finish up living on the press if you did your decapping and FL sizing separately. For neck or collet sizing, there is no requirement for the long handle. But believe me, you would need to be a gym bunny to FL size with the short handle. I tried with a 6.5x55 Swede case, admittedly with crook shoulders, but after swinging pretty hard on it I gave up. My table was starting to creak and groan. That extra length of the long handle makes a huge difference and 6.5x55 becomes a breeze.

The photo shows both handles installed for comparison. You might think they could live like that, but no. Using the short handle, say to seat a bullet, the long one comes down and clocks ya one!

You can easily do without the shorty. Its nice, it makes the press very compact and comfortable giving more feel to the seating operation but you can do the same stuff with the long one and not think badly of it - until you try the shorty of course.

I learned more about the cam-over. Using the Lee Dead Length Seating Die I made a mistake setting it up, being more familiar with Lee Pistol seating dies that also crimp. With the latter, you thread the die to touch the shell plate then back it out some if you don't want crimp. Depending how much crimp you want you then progressively thread it down until the crimp is achieved. There is no crimp function in this rifle seating die. Backing the die off the shell plate meant there was no cam over happening. The load I was using is compressed. Without sufficient, or any camover, first the bullet would not seat beyond the pushback of compressed powder, secondly there was several thou difference between cartridge OALs depending on how the powder had stacked in the cases. I only have on hand a short neck funnel and the AR2217 is a stick powder inclined to bridge. Tapping the case head on the table helped settle the powder but with no consistency. I finally realized my mistake. Lee die instructions call for a further quarter turn of the die down after touching the shell plate. On the Summit you can go that far and continue a tad more if more camover is desired. It is exactly the same feel as closing vicegrips on an object as they lock. With the Summit you want just enough lock and not so much as to damage things. With that sorted I was getting precise bullet depth seating even with quite heavy powder compression. And yes, ADI load data specifies this as a compressed load.

An update after nearly two years. I finally got us relocated out of Auckland and into the Naki. Yay! I eventually got a dedicated reloading and gun room, not huge but to die for not competing with other activities and a lockable strong door. Double Yay!!

I've been mostly using my Lee and Dillon presses recently having calibres set up specifically for them. I had a stretch earlier in the year with the Summit and managed to break the long-handle off at the screw in stud - my fault entirely as I was resizing rifle brass and had not noticed the handle had worked loose. It relies for strength on being screwed into a rebate that takes the load off the thin threaded section onto the full diameter of the shaft. I broke it where the thread end meets the full shaft. With some advice from this Forum I had a suitable hi-tensile cap screw drilled and threaded into the end as a strong repair.

Anyway, I set it up today to do some 270Win loading, a new calibre for me, and in a coffee moment did a Google search for current reviews. I learned that:
- RCBS acknowledged some early quality and design issues around the linkages and has addressed them
- They have also updated the primer catcher with a new design that is gathering user accolades.
- the press has garnered a lot of enthusiasm for its delivery of highly concentric bullet seating
- the price in NZ has nearly doubled since I bought mine 2 years ago. GC have it at $950, others a $100 lower.

I've emailed RCBS asking if the new spent primer catcher is available, also if there are any mechanical updates available to early adopters.

Its good to see a company with not only the courage to bring out what is for them quite a radical new product design but also to stick with it to address the early issues. (I'm thinking in comparison of Thompson dropping the Centre Dimension which had the tacky peeling sunburn issue on the plastic stock - a stunning rifle to use which got widely slammed for its unusual looks)

I'd be keen to hear from any other users on the forum how you are finding the press this far down the track.

Cheers. J.

Hope you get a favourable response from RCBS.

I have found them excellent on 2 occassions. When I enquired about my Chargemaster overruning they sent me a complete motor and dispenser tube to try. The dispenser tube is slightly smaller than standard. The tech said to break the warranty seal to instal the new motor/tube, they would stand by the warranty. I don't know if they continued with that modified motor/tube. The McDonalds straw probably does the same thing.

The other item they sent was a double mould sprue cutter plate. A mate had purchased a second hand mould that some gorilla had damaged the sprue cutter on. Mate went into Sportways (RCBS agents at the time) and was fobbed off. I contacted RCBS and asked whether I could buy a replacement. I was happy to buy it as it was hardly a warranty issue.

They sent both items to me free including free shipping. Top service.

I didn't like to tell them that I had recently changed all my dies to Redding.

Originally Posted by zimmer

Hope you get a favourable response from RCBS.

I have found them excellent on 2 occassions. When I enquired about my Chargemaster overruning they sent me a complete motor and dispenser tube to try. The dispenser tube is slightly smaller than standard. The tech said to break the warranty seal to instal the new motor/tube, they would stand by the warranty. I don't know if they continued with that modified motor/tube. The McDonalds straw probably does the same thing.

The other item they sent was a double mould sprue cutter plate. A mate had purchased a second hand mould that some gorilla had damaged the sprue cutter on. Mate went into Sportways (RCBS agents at the time) and was fobbed off. I contacted RCBS and asked whether I could buy a replacement. I was happy to buy it as it was hardly a warranty issue.

They sent both items to me free including free shipping. Top service.

I didn't like to tell them that I had recently changed all my dies to Redding.

Had the same treatment Sportways