Thread: Reloading 22 Hornet (The Original) – Optimal Canada Goose Load

Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

@Jhon I fully agree with your method of training.
As I get more into this goose shooting lark, with center fire rifles, not shotguns, the more I realize rapid offhand shooting is essential.
Basically with geese you get one shot, perhaps two off the bipod then all he'll breaks loss and they are moving and the shooter is moving fast to keep them in sight, whilst finding a gap between tree to squeeze off.
This morning there were five geese on the grass and pond, I got all five with the 222 Remington. Only the first one was off the bipod.
The type of shooting is exactly what we used to do in our 20's. Rows of tin cans off hand as fast as you could. We also used to roll tyres down the hill, with a piece of cardboard stuffed inside as a target. The shooter would be at right angles to the travel of the tyre and be armed with a pump action shotgun, lever action or bolt action 22.
Perhaps that practice paid a dividend this morning

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Yes I'm sure you're correct Hugh. I was taught from the get-go by father and grandfather to shoot off the shoulder once I could hold the rifle. At 4 I was on the ground prone..Havnt made a habit of that since lol. I would never claim to be a crack shot, but I've put plenty of meat on the table, mostly small game. My father was deadly and held small bore records as an airforce Cadet for many years. I learned with his Slazenger Lithgow Model 12 and still have it. Back in the day we never ever thought to use a rest of any kind. Beneath us I guess but really it never entered our minds you would shoot off anything other than your shoulder. Nowadays I'll grab any rest I can if time permits.. where I stuff up offhand is when I have time to think about it. Otherwise I just do it and usually connect. Muscle memory does it and that comes from what you describe. Plenty of plinking. Headshot on a hare with 22Hornet at 80m or bodyshot on a rabbit out to 100 odd is really my limit these days. But bigger animals out to 200 on the shoulder is not a problem. Have fun down there!

So one accuracy hack for the 22 hornet , is use pistol primers ( not rifle primers ) , seems to be better for the small case , this is a hack most older shooters know about .

I also use a Lee crimp die as well .

I just use fed sr primers. Works in my hornets

Originally Posted by ChrisF

So one accuracy hack for the 22 hornet , is use pistol primers ( not rifle primers ) , seems to be better for the small case , this is a hack most older shooters know about .

I also use a Lee crimp die as well .

Yes definitely on the Pistol primers. Go easy on the Lee FCD tho. I use one also but a very light crimp for uniformity across mixed brass. Yes I know sticking to one brand would be good but beggars etc etc. Those case mouths are super thin. Too heavy a crimp not only damages the brass but can also see the brass loose its tension grip on the bullet I think. Counter-intuitive but try it on a sacrificial piece and I think you'll see what I mean. I use about half the full crimp possible.

Also crimp twice, turning shell half turn for 2nd pass. The collet produces little gathers in the brass and it seems that two passes gives a more uniform crimp.and perhaps better concentricity.

Originally Posted by blip

I just use fed sr primers. Works in my hornets

Me too, no need for pistol primers if you lightly crimp I think.


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Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

@Quicknock I went around to the Awatea Lakes tonight after dark and walked around all the lakes. There were a lot of geese! I reckon they can be shot safety, but only from one or two angles, where there is a safe backdrop. The view I liked best was from the cast iron garden seat down by the edge of the lake, behind a house. There is a safe shooting corridor in a north-east direction where there are two dense rows of established forest. Who would be the best person to talk to to coordinate with the residents and KCDC? Private message me if you like or txt or call to discuss 021 9888 41

I wouldn't have a clue who to talk to from KCDC unfortunately sorry @Hugh Shields.
There is another small 'lake' with a grass patch that 10-20 of them regularly park up on on dusk that has a safe shooting corridor with a hill and pine trees as the a backdrop.

Yeah , Naaa ,

Almost , so I think its important to ONLY crimp once on the Lee Crimp die , donot rotate the case 180 degrees and crimp for second time , I feel it was not made to be used like that , it crimps in 3 places around the circumference , and thats IT .
So you end up with 3 areas crimped and 3 areas not crimped , if that makes sense .

But yes , when say bullet seating , YES cycle the press twice and in between rotate the case 180 degrees , as I feel this gives you less runout , again thats a OLD school trick .

As to powder for the Hornet , I use Lil gun , 13.0gr over a 40gr vmax bullet , get 3000fps and accurate in my rifle .

Cheers Chris

P.S. I use CCI pistol primer

Quick update on the optimal goose load.
I've done about 10 or 12 batches so far, with different projectiles, powders, primers and brass.
The best change I've done is from ADI AR2207 to AR2205. Noticeable faster and probably grouping better.
Changed from CCI 4OO Primers to Remington Match. They seem good.
Long list of projectiles, both hollow point and soft points. Round "Hornet" and pointy spire. No Ballistic Tip or VMAX, I'm not going there. Explanation, the Hornet was designed to shoot round or Semi pointed projectiles, so I'm sticking with that.
Some projectiles I've found too hard and not expanding enough.
Most I've used have given consistent one shot kills, when placed correctly.
The last two batches I've loaded to 9.8grn ADI AR2205 which is going well. I'm thinking some early loads weren't expanding well because they were simply going too SLOW!
Last two batches projectiles were, Hornady 45grn #2230 SP and Speer 45grn #1210, both labeled "Hornet." Both really good results in terms of grouping and terminal results.
I don't own a chronograph, so I tested velocity on a rabbitonagragh. The exit hole was big enough and since the liver was having an out of body experience, I think the velocity is about right:



Grouping seemed to be OK too. After I shot this unlucky bugger I thought, "Shit that's a long way! I wonder how far that is!?" So I paced it out in good strides, 182 paces:





Which just goes to show, we are all capable of pulling off a long range fluke shot every now and then!

But more scientific is this 27mm group at 100m. The high one was a flyer, which is why we need 5 shot groups. This is with a thermal imaging scope. I don't rate thermals as accurate as a good quality daylight scope, simply because of blur, electronic "flicker" and the hot bullet holes further complicating the heat image. But, reasonably happy:



Back on Canada Goose, I've shot bugger all! Still less than 100! Basically I'm get 5 or 6 out of a mob of 20 or 30, before they bugger off. Some places I've shot at the geese have NEVER returned, so I'm constantly trying to find new places. If you know where they are hiding in Kapiti, please let me now the address l. I'll try to obtain permission from the property owners. So far both Greater Wellington Regional Council and Kapiti Coast District Council, and Transit have declined me access to public land. DOC has, or is about to issue me a permit for some of their land.

@Marty Henry @Micky Duck @SmokeyJason

Progress is progress. Councils have a sucky attitude at times.best guess is they want it done by "thier certified" contractors....

I have a friend with a k hornet that gives him no end of problems, split cases in fire forming, split new shoulders after 2 or 3 reloads, and stuff like that. When it goes it goes when it doesn't he goes. He won't like this thread if I show it to him.

@Marty Henry
I don't know much about the K-Hornet, other than it has an angled shoulder to stop the cases stretching, a bigger powder capacity and therefore higher velocity (and presumably higher pressure. Until recently I didn't even know there was such a thing as a K. What I have learnt about the K is through this forum and YouTube.

What I do know about brass is it is both malleable and ductile, which means it can be both easily shape, bent and stretched. The process of fire forming a standard 22 Hornet to K is going to; reshape, bend and stretch the brass. Logically that would make the brass thinner and therefore more likely to split around the neck. No surprises there. It's just physics and metal fatigue.

I love the quote, "Victory loves preparation!" So unless your mate is intentionally setting self up to fail, this is what is suggest;
- Dump or sell the "Onc fired," formed brass
- Buy some brand new , high quality brass, Norms, Sako, Remington (if there is such a thing?)
- Don't buy cheap shitty brass, unless you want cheap shitty results
- Work up a good, efficient, minimal load which groups well and provides good terminal results
- Avoid HOT, maximum loads, they will shorten brass life, and may not be as accurate, or consistent as a mid-weight load. I think some reloaders set themselves up to fail by chasing the BIGGEST compressed powder charge that they can squeeze into the case. Then to conversation goes, "Look at me I'm getting 10,000 feet per second out of my Hornet, but the cases are splitting, the primers are popping, I've buggered the face of my bolt and I have to knock each case out with my cleaning rod!? Do you think I'm loading them to hot!?" No shit Sherlock!

Victory loves preparation, so follow the process set out in the Good Book and don't skip bits.

A lot of people say reloading Hornet is hard and fiddle, the cases deform and wha, wha, wha.... I find it easy and enjoyable. But I also spend a lot of time prepping my cases. I think the inside neck chamfer is critical, as is clean out the flash hole every single time!!!

A lot of people talk about standard 22 Hornet milk bottle shape stretching a lot with firing. I check and see trim every case to 1.393 and have been surprised to find some are not stretching at all. Again use quality brass.

Of all the cases I've fired, resized and reloaded I think I might find 5 in 100, or perhaps only 3 in 100 split or can't be reused. Much of my brass is only on second or third reload, but one standard Hornet owner on this forum reckons he gets 18 or 20 reloads out of a case, so if your mate is getting rapid, repeat splitting, they need to rethink their processes.

On closing I would like to put these questions to K HORNET owners and reloaders;
- Do you use fire formed brass or new factory cases?
- Does fire formed brass spot more often?
- Best brand for longevity?
- Is cheap brass as good or better than expensive brass?
- do you have problems with the neck splitting or head separation?
- What's you bet load?
- Are you running HOT - MEDIUM - COLD loads?
- How many reloads are you get from each case?

Just started down the k hornet road. bought a reamer and so far have reamed one of my hornets. Accuracy seems the same I dont go for max loads in my hornets, I'm happy with an accurate load. I haven't shot it enough to get any splits yet but I anneal my brass. What I would like is a lee collet die for the k, a standard hornet die doesn't work and I haven't looked into seeing if my hornet one can be modified. I'm not actually expecting the brass to last long as it is probably on its 4th or 5th loading for that rifle already.

This week I got to velocity and terminal check my last batch of Hornet loads: ADI AR2205 9.8grn. Sierra Varminter/Hornet #1200 40grn SP. I didn't shoot a cardboard target too assess grouping, just carried on from the previous load #1210 45grn SP with same powder charge. Surprisingly I hit more than I missed so POI must have been close to the same. That was just lazy prep and lack of time.

I ran a few through the rabbitonagraph velocity checker and was pretty happy with the results:



Then I ran one round through the possumonagraph:





The possum was 50 or 60 metres, standing up on the ground, looking the wrong way.

I'm pretty happy with these little 40grns and reckon they might become my go to.
Be interesting to see how they go on goats....

Velocity is hard to guess!? The various reloading manuals, (for similar or equivalent Brand powders) show:

- ADI AR2205 2421 - 2567ftps
- HORNADY 2400 - 2500 OR 2600 - 2700
- Sierra 2100 - 2300
- Speer 2639 - 2782
So it's really anybodies guess?

Is the NZHS Forum north island chronograph anywhere near Wellington/Kapiti? I wouldn't mind doing a more scientific velocity check? @SmokeyJason @Micky Duck
@Marty Henry how's your K mate getting on sorting out processes?

Also @blip how are you getting on with your K?

I just ran your load threw quickload with a 22" rifle barrel,
40gr Serria HP, with 9.8gr is 2410 fps @ 31600psi.
45 gr speer Sp with 9.8gr is 2362fps @ 34600psi,
And as a hornet owner, your rabbitograph damage, isn't as tore up, as mine tend to be,

I run 11.5 gr of littlegun with a SPP primer CCI500, under everything, 40 v-max and 45, 46 gr Speer, at about 43000psi and 2900 for speed. this is possibly a bit hot for the 45gr, or 3.5gr trail boss, with the 46gr for a quite load, about 1500fps.

there is room for improvement on your loads if you want to run a bit faster and flatter.
10.5gr 2205, will take you to about 2600, at 39000psi, with a 40gr Serria Hp.
but a powder change to littlegun, Cfe blackout, N120, 4227 will likely give you 3-500 more on speed.

Littlegun really ups the performance in the .22 Hornet, quite a lot of info online if you search, lots running 12gr, but i think this is a bit hot,

I have just received a box of 40gr Fox copper bullets, to try in my Hornet, I've loaded 6 with my std load,

Don't be lazy Hugh, get a chrono. Must be one a local can lend for the day?