Thread: Rifle and reloaded ammo accuracy

I'm not fussy but all through the same hole would be near enough for me either that or "1 shot groups" as they will always be less than the magic MOA.

Its only the first shot that counts anyway

Originally Posted by Gibo

I think your test is the best for a hunting gun Dave. First shot is crucial

I spose. It is a start. Wish I shot as consistently in the field as I do on the range, group wise.

I took a wee knobby a couple days ago.
Was around 130 yards. I aimed for the neck resting on a tree. Heaps of time. Shot felt perfect and he dropped on the spot.
I pulled the shot 4" to the right and hit in the top of the shoulder. Dead as when I got up to it....thankfully.

Shot the rifle day before at the range and you could cover the group with a quarter of an ipsc 22mm patch.







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Originally Posted by R93

Wish I shot as consistently in the field as I do on the range, group wise.
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Exactly

an image that sticks in my memory is of a accurate varmint rifle review with a bunch of show targets shot at 100yds with 3 shot groups using the same load to prove what a great setup the writer owned . . they averaged under .5MOA . . trouble was if you REALLY looked at the groups and the positions and shapes of the groups in the target squares, some were slightly at the 1oclock position, some 11oclock etc etc . . . the guy owned a sub 1MOA rifle setup in actual performance where it matters but you couldnt tell him that, he wanted to believe . . and the reader to believe.

this is where the original question is never going to get a decent answer on the web . . so many differeent and varied ways people find to fool themselves and others on honest accuracy potential of rifles n loads and themselves. . . people !

The first shot counts, agreed. You don't statistically find out with any degree of certainty where your first shot is going to go by doing a three shot group. A ten shot cold barrel group like R 93 did is good. A five shot one would give you a less precise idea. A properly stress relieved barrel that doesn't wander as it gets hot is better.
Ballistipedia says six shots is the ideal minimum to ascertain how well a rifle shoots. That is from a statistician and a couple of doctors of physics.

My maths background tells me it is impossible to see a trend with any degree of certainty by using 3 data points. With four it's possible, and you can with 5+, obviously the more the better.

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Originally Posted by Feather or Shoot

The first shot counts, agreed. You don't statistically find out with any degree of certainty where your first shot is going to go by doing a three shot group. A ten shot cold barrel group like R 93 did is good. A five shot one would give you a less precise idea. A properly stress relieved barrel that doesn't wander as it gets hot is better.
Ballistipedia says six shots is the ideal minimum to ascertain how well a rifle shoots. That is from a statistician and a couple of doctors of physics.

My maths background tells me it is impossible to see a trend with any degree of certainty by using 3 data points. With four it's possible, and you can with 5+, obviously the more the better.

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What about 10+ 3 shot groups?

I dont think anybody here is calling one 3 shot group any kind of standard.

If you overlay them yes, if you average them no.

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Originally Posted by Feather or Shoot

If you overlay them yes,

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Which would make it statistically better than 5 or 10 shot groups because you had to reload,reaim and rebuild your poistion ten times vs once

Of course that is more testing the shooter than the rifle in that senario .

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I consider an accurate HUNTING rifle that can hold a group on POI for at least 3 rounds, every time you test it.
Most important the first cold round.



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Originally Posted by R93

I consider an accurate HUNTING rifle that can hold a group on POI for at least 3 rounds, every time you test it.
Most important the first cold round.



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So multiple 3 round groups. Do you compare them? With fouler shot? If you overlayed them you could approximate how accurate your rifle is and given target kill zone size work out point blank range and maximum range for the game you're shooting.

I'm not disagreeing with you. It just irks me when people are showing off how accurate their rifles are by showing selected 3 shot groups.

Interesting read on the Berger site about 3 shot groups. It says the guys at ballistapedia reckon standard deviation from aim point is way more informative than group size.

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https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&so...y8MZYUdldE3cnw

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What do you want mate.
Do you think that everyboy should shooot like a 50 thousand shot group to sort out their hunting, or do you think that a check on zero every now and then is professional enough.

Checking zero is fine with 3 shot groups. Making comments on the inherent accuracy of your rifle with a three shot group isn't helpful.

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Originally Posted by Feather or Shoot

Interesting read on the Berger site about 3 shot groups. It says the guys at ballistapedia reckon standard deviation from aim point is way more informative than group size.

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read way back in the day about British longrange trials where they used the new to me expression ' group dispersion ' . . . it seemed such a good method i've always wondered why its not used more

Originally Posted by Feather or Shoot

Checking zero is fine with 3 shot groups. Making comments on the inherent accuracy of your rifle with a three shot group isn't helpful.

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Bullshit. It fits a purpose.
An accurate HUNTING rifle will/should put 3 rounds on POI everytime you shoot it. It is then what I would consider accurate for its purpose.





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