Thread: Rifle and reloaded ammo accuracy

Originally Posted by R93

Bullshit. It fits a purpose.
An accurate HUNTING rifle will/should put 3 rounds on POI everytime you shoot it. It is then what I would consider accurate for its purpose.





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I don't know exactly what you are getting at here?
For deer hunting I get you're not shooting strings of bullets, so I understand that the first 3 shots are critical. Deer rifles also tend to be pencil profile barrels which are prone to wandering when hot. Hence why so many people are reluctant to shoot larger groups. What I'm saying is that three shots is not enough to see how accurate the rifle is. If you overlayed say two-three three shot groups then you could, with a great deal of confidence, say that your next shot will fall somewhere within the area contained within those previous six-nine shots. However if you just use one three shot group there is quite a high percentage chance your next shot will fall outside the area bounded by your initial three shots. Therefore three shot groups should not be used as a gauge on the accuracy of a rifle and therefore what range it can reliably kill any given game. Also because of the relative ease of producing a small 3 shot group from an inaccurate rifle I would not put much store in somebody touting their rifle is half MOA and showing you a single 3 shot group.
I agree three shot groups do fit a purpose and that purpose is checking a rifle is still zeroed.

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Originally Posted by Feather or Shoot

I don't know exactly what you are getting at here?
For deer hunting I get you're not shooting strings of bullets, so I understand that the first 3 shots are critical. Deer rifles also tend to be pencil profile barrels which are prone to wandering when hot. Hence why so many people are reluctant to shoot larger groups. What I'm saying is that three shots is not enough to see how accurate the rifle is. If you overlayed say two-three three shot groups then you could, with a great deal of confidence, say that your next shot will fall somewhere within the area contained within those previous six-nine shots. However if you just use one three shot group there is quite a high percentage chance your next shot will fall outside the area bounded by your initial three shots. Therefore three shot groups should not be used as a gauge on the accuracy of a rifle and therefore what range it can reliably kill any given game. Also because of the relative ease of producing a small 3 shot group from an inaccurate rifle I would not put much store in somebody touting their rifle is half MOA and showing you a single 3 shot group.
I agree three shot groups do fit a purpose and that purpose is checking a rifle is still zeroed.

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I think we are all arguing semantics here. In one breath you are saying three shot groups are not good enough then you are saying three shot groups are good enough. I think what you mean is A three shot group is not enough, but three shot groups (overlaid/repeatable) are. No one here is talking about A three shot group but repeatable three shot or single shot groups.

One shot groups works for me

Originally Posted by Kscott

One shot groups works for me

Me too. But I'm still working on getting them all through the same hole.

There is a fairly predictable curve when it comes to 3 shot vs 5 shot vs 10 shot. Brian Litz has an entire chapter on dispersion in his latest book.

I think people also confuse an undefined "consistent point of impact" for 1 or 2 shots with a hunting rifle with accuracy and precision.

To me, whatever claim you make must be repeatable. And it also needs to be seen in the context of statistical probability. If you claim that you shoot 0.5 MOA groups, then it should be something that you can demonstrate on a regular basis, not just a single fluke 3 shot group you shot once in your life :-)

Even if you take all the external factors out (shooter, barrel heating up, wind etc) there is a normal amount of dispersion for any system.

And to all the 3-shot group guys on here, shoot a 3 X 3 X 3 grid on a single page, allowing enough time for the barrel to cool down....

So an 18 shot group? You target fullas are weird

Originally Posted by Gibo

So an 18 shot group? You target fullas are weird

Agreed. But they probably can do Maffs better than you😆

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Oi Feather!, so I have a4 targets for practice at the range, 4x 1" dots as aim point with 1" boxes at exactly +3". Four target boxes per a4.

My rifles get set up to hold at +3" at the 110yd, as my standard zero. So by your argument, the fact that I can put all of my rounds, in sets of three, inside each box, and do it every single time, every single day, still means that my rifle is , " inaccurate". Tell that to the animals I have killed with those rifles out to 400, and occasionally past.

And where the hell do you get the idea that all deer rifles have "pencil barrels"?

Please tell me how to fix my inaccurate rifles..........

Originally Posted by Gibo

So an 18 shot group? You target fullas are weird

9 individual 3 shot groups

an 18 shot group is a very different animal !

Originally Posted by ebf

9 individual 3 shot groups

an 18 shot group is a very different animal !

Any animals needs 18 shots, should probably be left alone..........or a bigger gun!

With 18 shots (or 27 if my maths are right), it is not an animal you are hunting, but an army of zombies!

Originally Posted by 257weatherby

Any animals needs 18 shots, should probably be left alone..........or a bigger gun!

or a better shooter!!!

Originally Posted by 257weatherby

Oi Feather!, so I have a4 targets for practice at the range, 4x 1" dots as aim point with 1" boxes at exactly +3". Four target boxes per a4.

My rifles get set up to hold at +3" at the 110yd, as my standard zero. So by your argument, the fact that I can put all of my rounds, in sets of three, inside each box, and do it every single time, every single day, still means that my rifle is , " inaccurate". Tell that to the animals I have killed with those rifles out to 400, and occasionally past.

And where the hell do you get the idea that all deer rifles have "pencil barrels"?

Please tell me how to fix my inaccurate rifles..........

If you overlay those four targets on top of one another then you can make comments on how accurate your rifle is.

If your rifle shoots inside of an inch for every group then you have a sub MOA rifle.

If you shoot one of those groups at 1/4" you don't have a quarter minute rifle.

And why the hell are you aiming at a dot that is an inch big at 110 yards? Dots are too imprecise. Diamonds will line your crosshairs up way better.

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Originally Posted by Feather or Shoot

If you overlay those four targets on top of one another then you can make comments on how accurate your rifle is.

If your rifle shoots inside of an inch for every group then you have a sub MOA rifle.

If you shoot one of those groups at 1/4" you don't have a quarter minute rifle.

And why the hell are you aiming at a dot that is an inch big at 110 yards? Dots are too imprecise. Diamonds will line your crosshairs up way better.

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The eye naturally quarters up the target....its how aperture sights work.

Hows all this going for you @Floody? You get any answers?