Thread: Rifle and reloaded ammo accuracy

Originally Posted by Feather or Shoot

If you overlay those four targets on top of one another then you can make comments on how accurate your rifle is.

If your rifle shoots inside of an inch for every group then you have a sub MOA rifle.

If you shoot one of those groups at 1/4" you don't have a quarter minute rifle.

And why the hell are you aiming at a dot that is an inch big at 110 yards? Dots are too imprecise. Diamonds will line your crosshairs up way better.

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The eye naturally quarters up the target....its how aperture sights work.

With 18 shots (or 27 if my maths are right), it is not an animal you are hunting, but an army of zombies!

Hows all this going for you @Floody? You get any answers?

To the 5'rs and 3'rs I say just this. A 5, 10, 18 shot group say more about the consistancy of your AMMO, crosswind conditions, your ability to deal with fatigue and mirage off barrel heat. Shooting for pure precision, my vote is on the 3 shot. Half the time a 5 shot will mangle the POI to shit anyway ('yeah right' they say in unison)

Originally Posted by Dead is better

To the 5'rs and 3'rs I say just this. A 5, 10, 18 shot group say more about the consistancy of your AMMO, crosswind conditions, your ability to deal with fatigue and mirage off barrel heat. Shooting for pure precision, my vote is on the 3 shot. Half the time a 5 shot will mangle the POI to shit anyway ('yeah right' they say in unison)

I actually don't understand this opinion. "For pure precision", does this mean you can get smaller groups with a 3 shot group? With this argument why not go for two or one shot groups? Dispose the inaccurate ones and say you have a laser shooter of a rifle.

An accurate rifle will shoot tiny 3 shot groups. Tiny 3 shot groups looked at individually does not mean an accurate rifle.

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Originally Posted by Feather or Shoot

I actually don't understand this opinion. "For pure precision", does this mean you can get smaller groups with a 3 shot group? With this argument why not go for two or one shot groups? Dispose the inaccurate ones and say you have a laser shooter of a rifle.

An accurate rifle will shoot tiny 3 shot groups. Tiny 3 shot groups looked at individually does not mean an accurate rifle.

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I would like to see some of your groups, whether they be 3, 5 or 10. You seem to be hell bent that no one else on this forum has an accurate rifle

Originally Posted by Gibo

I would like to see some of your groups, whether they be 3, 5 or 10. You seem to be hell bent that no one else on this forum has an accurate rifle

No I'm not. What on earth gave you that idea? Why do you take it so personally?

My 22-250 has a barrel that has probably done 2000+ shots on it and groups consistently within .8" at 100 m (hunting conditions, no bags), 5 shot group that is. Extrapolate that out and it gives me 2.4"at 300 m in ideal conditions. I bring my maximum sighting range in quite a lot in wind as I'm only shooting 55 gr's. Rabbits have a kill zone of about 4". That would mean it's possible for me to hit rabbits at 400 m but very unlikely. Longest 1 shot kill on rabbits 337 m.
I'd say that is an adequate rifle for purpose, but nothing to write home about. Will chase better accuracy and range when I rebarrel. It shoots great 3 shot groups though hahaha, but I always shoot a couple more and fuck it up 😝

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Originally Posted by Gibo

I would like to see some of your groups, whether they be 3, 5 or 10. You seem to be hell bent that no one else on this forum has an accurate rifle

I don't see this claim being made. If the question is how well a rifle shoots and how far to progress load development, then discussing the means of quantifying this seems reasonable. Samples size follows a diminishing returns curve as a predictor of population, so while I wouldn't myself make use of 18-shot group data IMHO it is a mistake to use 3-shot groups as a predictor of where subsequent shots will impact when 5-6 shots are so much better. As has been pointed out this is more significant for quantifying shot dispersion than for estimating the true point of aim. Load development using 3-shot groups is more likely to lead to incorrect conclusions being made than if Feather or Shoot's advice is taken. This type of thing gets aired on this site quite regularly; pictures posted of a number of groups with requests for interpretation, when all the groups - being 3-shot groups- are statistically the sort of normal variation one would expect from a fixed load.

Originally Posted by Feather or Shoot

I actually don't understand this opinion. "For pure precision", does this mean you can get smaller groups with a 3 shot group? With this argument why not go for two or one shot groups? Dispose the inaccurate ones and say you have a laser shooter of a rifle.

An accurate rifle will shoot tiny 3 shot groups. Tiny 3 shot groups looked at individually does not mean an accurate rifle.

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If the rifle is defective you will not be able to make a string of 'tiny 3 shot groups'. So the ability to shoot them does clearly demonstrate the rifle's cold to warm barrelled precision.

*Have a try of this - do a run of 5x 3shot groups and take the average, then again do 3x 5shot groups and take the average.
I reckon there's a good chance you will actually get a higher average with the 3 shot groups as you've had to break your position more often.

Just a working theory - If I remember to do this I'll post up my results (like the wildly flung monkey excrement they may be - just warning everyone in advance)

What is POI? Point of impact?

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Originally Posted by Feather or Shoot

What is POI? Point of impact?

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Yup.

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Not personal, quite frankly don't care. Just seemed everyone elses idea of accurate was not good enough

Only just read bits of this thread, 3 shots is enough for me for my hunting rifles.

Here's a group I shot this morning developing a load for the swede I got off buzzman a couple of weeks back.



I then went out to 400 and put two shots dead centre 2.5" apart, good enough for me. Only 10x scope.

Time to show it a deer.

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Originally Posted by GWH

Only just read bits of this thread, 3 shots is enough for me for my hunting rifles.

Here's a group I shot this morning developing a load for the swede I got off buzzman a couple of weeks back.



I then went out to 400 and put two shots dead centre 2.5" apart, good enough for me. Only 10x scope.

Time to show it a deer.

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Your 200 yrd zero is out by at least
3 mm. Best you sort it😆

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Originally Posted by GWH

Only just read bits of this thread, 3 shots is enough for me for my hunting rifles.

Here's a group I shot this morning developing a load for the swede I got off buzzman a couple of weeks back.



I then went out to 400 and put two shots dead centre 2.5" apart, good enough for me. Only 10x scope.

Time to show it a deer.

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I wouldn't waste my time taking that inaccurate p.o.s hunting.