Thread: Seriously underrated 6.5x47 Lapua

Hairs split I'm done

Originally Posted by Tussock

This is why I asked. I too shoot as you describe and just let the muzzle do its thing.

Most people these days shoot prone/bipod with the non-trigger hand tucked in under the buttstock. And all power to them. I learnt to shoot prone a long time ago with no bipod, supporting the air rifle or .22 with my left hand, then the same with centrefires. And no amount of anything can get me to change that now, irrespective of what kind of rest is up front.

Interestingly my wife who is army trained, also controls the forend with her left hand, for exactly the same reason, most of the training was done without a forend rest, especially with the R4. Now she tells me this evening that when using the 7.62 R1 (FN-FAL) with the bipod, the taught position was still left hand on the rifle forend, which obviously is at odds with the US Military for example.

Just a simple case of old habits die very hard, when the old habit doesn't appear to hinder you in anyway then why change?

Originally Posted by gimp

To the handloader the difference is purely academic

This was the topic.

Originally Posted by Sidney

plenty of people ran around 2900 in 6.5x55 with 140's. 22" barrels. I did... my 6.5x55AI ran 3050 and up to 3200 before pressure 24" barrel.. it was probably an exception to the average result in that version..

its no theory that loading manuals ran low pressure loads for 6.5x55... it was standard practice for years particularly in the time that modern rifles were not being chambered in 6.5x55. I would suggest that a lack of personal knowledge about stuff doesn't make it a theory.

I have run 6.5x47s and they tend to be 50fps-100fps light on the average modern 6.5x55... and well short of my AI version..

Small efficient modern cases get more bang for your buck not more bang in total...

Yes I agree with you on most of that and I can only speak from experience of one rifle..
You would think a case like x55 would leave a much smaller case like x47 well in its dust but this is simply not the case. The little x47 holds its own up against those larger powder wasters for sure especially once barrel length is reduced.
Lack of personal knowledge for me most definatly makes it theory in my books until Ive tried something for myself its all just theory. If I didnt operate with that school of thought Id be loading mild 2209 loads like every other sheep out there and be shooting 2600 to 2700fps.
Im confident that with the right powder if it exists yet the x47 could actually run even faster.

My Creedmoor maxed out velocity due to pressure with 44.5gr of RL16 but the x47 shows no pressure signs with a compressed load of 42gr RL16 yet is already 150fps faster than that creed load.
Its an interesting cartridge for sure and I have no doubt it ill be my daily shooter. I have more info on it by next weekend and will share some load development with several other powders and bullets too.

I had no intention of this thread becoming a 6.5 pissing match but will definatly aim to illustrate just how efficient this little case is when compared to its closer matched short action non magnum counterparts.

Hey! Who are you calling a sheep?!

If the wooly hat fits..

Originally Posted by Wingman

Yes I agree with you on most of that and I can only speak from experience of one rifle..
You would think a case like x55 would leave a much smaller case like x47 well in its dust but this is simply not the case. The little x47 holds its own up against those larger powder wasters for sure especially once barrel length is reduced.
Lack of personal knowledge for me most definatly makes it theory in my books until Ive tried something for myself its all just theory. If I didnt operate with that school of thought Id be loading mild 2209 loads like every other sheep out there and be shooting 2600 to 2700fps.
Im confident that with the right powder if it exists yet the x47 could actually run even faster.

My Creedmoor maxed out velocity due to pressure with 44.5gr of RL16 but the x47 shows no pressure signs with a compressed load of 42gr RL16 yet is already 150fps faster than that creed load.
Its an interesting cartridge for sure and I have no doubt it ill be my daily shooter. I have more info on it by next weekend and will share some load development with several other powders and bullets too.

I had no intention of this thread becoming a 6.5 pissing match but will definatly aim to illustrate just how efficient this little case is when compared to its closer matched short action non magnum counterparts.

Absolutely - nor I and there isn't a 6.5 that I don't like well, maybe the 264WM is well overblown and I wouldn't bother. I just wanted to contribute to your sample size - would hate to have you base your personal theory on one seemingly aberrant 55 -

I'm running my 6.5SLR at 2750 with 130s out of a 16" barrel and building a 22" 6.5SAUM that will operate at 3100-3200 for the same pills

The 6.5 is a cool calibre - its ballistically efficient at a projectile weight range of 120-140gr which is perfect for most of our hunting, whilst at the same time being light enough to allow for small powder cases and low recoil.

Originally Posted by 257weatherby

6.5x55 is hamstrung in all the manuals and factory loaders because of all the old actions that could shit themselves with a proper load, loaded hard in a modern action the Swede has legs that would astonish you as is breezes past the tiddler 6.5 cartridges

Think it has something to do with the Norwegian Krag actions having single recoil lugs, or something to that effect. Load to lowest common safe denominator.

wingman.....you would love my buddies rifle...drop block Canadian action with superb walnut stock,chambered in .204 ruger necked up to 6.5mm..... he has two of them,the kimber he can really crank it up to silly levels.... and then he goes n buys a .300 mag to use instead...go figure.
this particular chap is a classic..... uses a little case to reduce recoil then tries to load it up to duplicate a big case preformance thinking he will get less recoil??? Newton anyone...
SAME chap bought single shot .308 then tried to get 3000fps with 150 grn pill and wondered why recoil got steep!!!! wouldnt drop projectile weight to 130grn or go heavier and slower.... a real head scratcher...but the .300 kicks less than the .308 he tells me?????

Gimp only irritates me because he now advocates factory ammo and it seems like going into a fly tying forum and telling them they are wasting their time because you can buy flies at the fishing shop.

As much as he is the most irritating person at times he is frequently right so I had another look at 6.5 Creedmore last night. I considered it because it seems cheap and plentiful. I dismissed it because it lacks two characteristics I like about the 6.5x47L. First, it used a large rifle primer and the x47s small primer pocket (and thus thick solid case base) and the hard federal primers make perfect sense to me. I think a large rifle primer in such a small case plays more than a priming role. There seems to be abundant data that show a small rifle primer and a small flash hole produce a more accurate round. Lapua thinks so anyway.

If I want a chambering, I look through Lapuas catalogue because I don't use other brass. Years ago I had a shitty time with mixed Hornady brass because it was inconsistent and it put me off. If I use Lapua, I know I can forget about the cases.

Secondly, the Creedmore seems to need more barrel for the same velocity and for a dual purpose target/varmint/hunting rifle which I like to build, I want the shortest barrel I can get away with without sacrificing any velocity. I want single shot accuracy, up to 3 rounds. I don't actually care as much about groups as I do how much a single shot from a cold barrel deviates from the point of aim. Nothing has performed like the x47 in this regard.

Can anyone shed some light on this? I see Wingman is getting better velocity from the x47, all things being equal. Does the Creedmore really need more barrel to match the x47 for velocity?

I also note the Creedmore has Lapua brass with a small rifle primer and flash hole. Has anyone tried this? This basically makes it a x47 with factory ammo which is attractive. If most of the deformation is in the case head, and you have a robust case head, a hard primer, a tight firing pin and you are not stretching your brass, you can handle more pressure. If I ever end up with a three lug Sako bolt through my head you will know I was wrong.

I am not certain there is not some engineering magic in the shape of the x47 case that explains the inherent accuracy (which is phenomenal) and the efficiency. It is a rare example of a case engineered from the ground up by people who know about these things. There are not that many engineered rounds out there. Most are modifications of an engineered round.

Originally Posted by Sidney

Absolutely - nor I and there isn't a 6.5 that I don't like well, maybe the 264WM is well overblown and I wouldn't bother. I just wanted to contribute to your sample size - would hate to have you base your personal theory on one seemingly aberrant 55 -

I'm running my 6.5SLR at 2750 with 130s out of a 16" barrel and building a 22" 6.5SAUM that will operate at 3100-3200 for the same pills

The 6.5 is a cool calibre - its ballistically efficient at a projectile weight range of 120-140gr which is perfect for most of our hunting, whilst at the same time being light enough to allow for small powder cases and low recoil.

shite for a moment there I couldve sworn you were talking about the mighty poohseventy!!!!

@Tussock The small rifle primed Lapua brass is all I use in Creedmoor and any comparison I make in this thread is with that brass. Same brass, same bullet, same powder, same primer and same barrel length.. the x47 wins with 3.5gr less powder and 150fps advantage. Creedmoor load shows pressure and x47 does not. I need a finer granule RL16 to get more in there to find where the pressure signs start

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

shite for a moment there I couldve sworn you were talking about the mighty poohseventy!!!!

Oh man.. who left that closet door open again?

so I had a quick look for powder you dreaming about....hard to suss out where eggzachary RL16 sits when its now shown on ADI chart but ASSUMING its between 15-and 19.... as the numbers keep going up as you get further down the chart....it might just be SIMILAR in burn rate to good old winchester 760....... food for thought,something to look into.as you would fit more in case....I KNOW you wont go blindly and will triple check everything just thought the obvious might have been missed (train of thought started with superpreformance for similar reasons,the more in case is why I use lilgun in x39mm) hope that makes sence???

Yeah super performance and 760 were in my sights..
Maybe even a blend of something lol