Thread: So if I start reloading

A very good book to have while starting out is Modern Reloading (2nd Edition) by Richard Lee. It is not too expensive and readily available. It does bias towards Lee gear (naturally) but is a worthwhile addition to the loading bench for a newcomer and experienced reloader for that matter.

@Phil_H
MD will get warm fuzzies with your above post.

I'm hopefully a reasonably experienced handloader now (but still learning) but certainly won't criticise your method/equipment.
Sure, I've got lots of good gear now but I am at a stage in life when I can afford it, even the shit that is probably not 100% essential.

The outlay for your kit is low and even lower if buying second hand and if the hobby turns out to not be your cup of tea you can usually recover your full outlay by on-selling.

However, I started out and loaded for many years using a second hand Lyman 310 hand tool (there was one for sale recently on the forum). Almost as basic as your Lee. It produced very good ammo, but slowly.

Like your gear I couldn't FLS but only did that every 4-5 loads and used a mate's press and FLSing die for that.

Still have my 12 g Lee shotgun kit somewhere as well and that produced good shells.

I don't know about going bush with my old Lyman 310 but mine did travel to South Africa and back. A mate went to SA TR Champs there a few years back and took my Lyman 310 tool and seater die with him. He loaded long here in NZ and seated to his final depth every evening before the next day's shoot using my 310.

If going straight into more expensive options (presses etc) though I have firm views around getting better gear straight up. Doesn't need to be brand new, nothing wrong with well cared for second hand. With a bit more dosh involved than a basic Lee Loader you don't want to buy a press that doesn't future proof your potentially heavier cartridge loadings of the future. A smashed alloy press, even if cheapish is still a significant loss of $s when you have to turn around and replace it.
I couldn't imagine your Lee Loader ever breaking.

I can just see you bugging out to the bush carting all your dies brass powder primers and rifles.

Loaded hundreds of rounds in 223 as a teenager ,great but of kit did have one primer go off heavy cycle wash for Mum the next day

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Originally Posted by Phil_H

I will probably be completely flamed for this @Remmodel7, but a cheap way to start reloading is with a Classic Lee Loader.

Attachment 165115

It doesn't get much simpler or cheaper than this.
I have this thing that if I have a caliber that I use, I like the idea of having a re-loader that I can take bush with me without having to worry about scales, electricity or work bench.....bit of a 'Prepper' mentality. Currently I have .308, .243 and recently purchased .223 so naturally I then went and bought a Lee Loader for the .223

Have just put it to the test today and done a sample run of 6 rounds. I used the Lee measuring spoon and used a factory PPU round to judge the AOL.
These are my results.

Attachment 165116

I have loaded up some 50gr V-Max using H4895
The load data from the Lee Modern Reloading Manual called for a powder charge between 25gr to 27.5gr
I cheated and after I filled each measuring spoon I put it on the scales just to check it. I consistently got 25.9gr with a variation of less than 0.1gr either side. I am now sufficently happy with my spoon technique not to have to weigh it each spoon load in the future.
.223 max AOL is 2.260 inches, the min AOL for this load is 2.210 inches. I set the die up using the factory round for reference using an eye-o-meter and managed a consistent AOL of 2.224 inches.

I now have but to take them to the range and test the rounds. I don't have a chronograph but am more interested in a good consistant grouping.

I have the reloading table with all the loading gear I need but I just like to have a very simple and easy and reliabe-consistant way to reload if needed.....that 'Prepper' side of me again.

Oh, and the price of the Classic Lee Loader??? $68.00 or there abouts.

Anyway, my 2 cents worth as to how one can start reloading very cheaply......I will now let other....and most likely more experienced and better informed.....forum members tell you why you shouldn't look at this option.

Cheers
Phil

Greetings Phil, Mickey Duck and All,
Don't disagree with you at all. The Lee Loader can turn out excellent ammunition given care. It is how I load my .303 rifles. My loads are light so will likely never need FL sizing but also have a vice FL sizing die. A little trick you may wish to try as your cases get a little snug is to fire a low pressure load in them. You might need another scoop for this. Or you can make one out of a .223 case and a bit of wire. I have not tried this in a .223 but have in my .308. 38 to 40 grains of AR2206H behind a 150 grain projectile in a tight case produces a case that chambers easily. Around 22 grains of AR2206H behind the 55 grain or lighter should do the trick in the .223. Still should be OK for shooting rabbits. I found my .223 rifles need a shorter than standard AOL for the recent Hornady projectiles so take your kit to the range just in case.
Regards Grandpamac.

I used a Lee Loader for my old three-oh years back too. Used Hornady 174-gr round noses; they sure knocked things to the ground!. I'm thinking about getting into reloading again. Sold all my reloading gear years ago in a rash of "I won't go hunting again" stupidity.

I'll probably just get a Lee press kit and a good set of scales. I don't target shoot so don't shoot a ton of rounds. It's probably not worth reloading for my 223; the Buffalo River ammo does a fine job at a reasonable cost. However I picked up some Hornady Precision hunter 6.5 Creedmore ammo for a mate the other day because they were out of stock nearly everywhere. $83 a box!

I've been using PPU for the 308; but am keen to make custom loads at a better price than 80 bucks a box! I know people say you don't save money reloading. But I reckon that if you're like me (from past reloading experience) that I can achieve similar quality to the Precision Hunter for a lot less when I settle on a load.... Will be an interesting play around anyway. And of course; reload for my beloved 303 SMLE....

Re Lee Loaders
Just had a look on the Lee Precision site and virtually everything is Out Of Stock including the humble Lee Loaders. Had a look on Titan Reloading's website where in the past I have bought Lee stuff and likewise, lots of Out Of Stock.
OP mentioned wanting to load for 6.5 Grendel. It looks like Lee doesn't do a kit in that calibre and even if they did I would assume it too would be OOS.

I started reloading for my L461 with a Lyman 310 handtool. I miss sitting at the kitchen table and the simplicity of it. Nothing wrong with low cost and effective if you don't mind taking a little extra time.

@Phil_H you, my good man, have made my day..... I dont own any of the rifle versions as bought whole she bang kit years back but do own the shotgun versions and used them lots...recently inherited a semi stuffed flash shotgun loader that does it all...I still do it manually but use the press for the important bits,deprime,reprime and the crimping bits....I tip powder in,poke wad in,tip shot in......make tidy round thats for sure.

Originally Posted by Tikka7mm08

I started reloading for my L461 with a Lyman 310 handtool. I miss sitting at the kitchen table and the simplicity of it. Nothing wrong with low cost and effective if you don't mind taking a little extra time.

A man after my own heart
I have 310 dies for 223, 243, 308 and 44/40.
��

so its 2" at hundred yards......no good for hunting???? unless you head shooting its still a very dead deer at 150...or pig...or wallaby...heck even a rabbit.
1st dibs if you decide the LEE set isnt for you LOL.
try same brass to begin with......its one thing folks have always given me shit about.
also...did you fire baseline group at same time with other ammunition???? that rules out human factor.....EG if your other group was also 2" all is well...if other group was .5 inches...not so good.

Greetings Phil,
In my opinion not too much wrong. General opinion is that a 5 shot group is likely to be 50% larger than a 3 shot group and you are a shot ahead of that. My anal approach to handloading prevents me mixing brass or not giving them a clean first. I am too tight to spring for a tumbler so just give them a spiff up with steel wool and a polish with a Chux. At least checking case length to make sure they are not too long and chamfering would remove one more variable. Using the Lee loader these two would only need to be done once. I am a low tech handloader by choice and avoid most fancy kit that others regard as essential. Always remember that deer in NZ were half wiped out with rifles that did not group as well as yours.
Happy hammering and regards Grandpamac

Originally Posted by Phil_H

Your comments are correct @Micky Duck and it does give me cause to reflect. I like the idea of simplicity and like the idea of being able to reload with the least number of tools and in simple steps.
I guess you are right. If I was stuck in the bush and this was my only setup, I definitely wouldn't go hungry.
As to shooting a baseline...no I didn't. I was timed constrained and had to tweak another rifle whilst I was at the range, but definitely something to consider going forward.



Thanks for your points @grandpamac.
Never thought of a 5 shot group being bigger than a 3 shot group, but then thinking on it logically, I you kept firing more shots inevitably the group is going to grow.
As to the points that you and MD have raised i.e. Same cartridge cases, cleaning cases and deburring and chamfering.
Yes, I do intend to use the same brand of cases going forward. Mixing brands on this occasion was an oversight.
Cleaning brass? Yes, I do it when loading normally on the press, but once again I am trying to see what accuracy I can get from the Lee Loader with the fewest possible steps.
Same applies for deburring and chamfering.

What I have decided to do is to take 5 cases of once fired brass, load them up, see what group I get and then repeat the process adding one of the above steps to refine the process one step at a time. It will be interesting to see what affects accuracy the most.

Thoughts on the powder. First up I stated that I used H4895. In actual fact it was IMR4895. Whilst they have approximately the same burn rate they vary in density, I believe. IMR4895 is also stick granules.
That aside, I thought that if I was to change to a ball powder I may get a better consistency of flow when filling the dipper.
Then again, for what I am trying to achieve is plus or minus 0.1 grain that critical? For this load of 25.9 grains, 0.1 grain = 0.38% whereas if I was loading the likes of a 30-06 with 50 grains, 0.1 grain only represents 0.2%
Obviously the bigger the charge the less the impact 0.1 grain is going to make, though then again, how critical is this small amount apart from the likes of long range or competition shooting?

All interesting stuff. I will load another 5 rounds with the only change this time, using same brand of cases and changing to a freer flowing powder, and see what improvement, if any, that has. I will report back.

Cheers
Phil

I think you are more likely to find accuracy adjusting seating depth and or powder charge weight or type than the "niceties" like champfering necks /cleaning primer pockets etc.

A good load is a good load and wont mind .1gr either side of target weight.
Projectiles can like a certain amount of jump and or barrels can like a certain speed.

Originally Posted by Phil_H

Just a couple of relevant video's that I found....and I think worth watching if you have any questions on the Lee Loader.....

First one is by Richard Lee himself demonstrating how you can create a round in 40 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeEl9wZyabc

The second one is 8 minutes long and it demonstrates how to make rounds with the Lee Loader but with more careful powder measuring and chamfering and deburring of the shells.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-tzaULt1rs

The only thing I don't like about the method in this one is that he is using a steel hammer.....Don't, just Don't for all manner of reasons. Only use a plastic or rubber hammer.


Cheers
Phil

Something that people often forget is that a press isn't mandatory, even for full length resizing!

There was a period when Lee Loaders also came in a 'deluxe' version (different from the target version, which offered inside neck reaming!) which could full length resize. But it failed as these required an excessive amount of force to use.

Enter the 'Vise Die':

Three companies offered these, Lynman, as a compliment to their 310 tong tool (which is in every way inferior to a Lee Loader!).Find these on US eBay, fairly common.

L.E Wilson, as a compliment to their neck sizing and decapping die along with bullet seating die. These are long discontinued and are the Cadillac of vise dies. Strong collectors market and I was lucky to get one for the .270 at a good price!

Finally, the only version which still in production and closer to home for you lot, the Super Simplex die. Early Simplex presses did not have enough uumph to Full Length Resize, only neck size, so they came out with their own vise dies for FL resizing. Come in a huge range of chamberings.

Seem to be in stock here: https://www.ozgunmart.com.au/super-s...h-resizing-die

But I bought direct from them, the lady running it is very helpful and service is quick:http://simplexreloading.com.au/4-pho...simplex-press/

Personally like these Vise dies as they are pretty idiot proof, always getting the brass back down to SAMMI/CIP standard chamber spec. Arguably work the brass more than necessary, and don't forget to use lube! (good idea when jamming any tight fitting thing into an orifice )

All of them come with a die body with holes in each end, which allows the brass to enter for resizing and be knocked out again. The lower spec ones (Lynamn and Simplex) only come with a knock-out rod, so you have to use a bit of wood to squeeze the back of the case into the die when in the vise. The L.E Wilson ones came with a plunger and base so you could feasibly use it on a strong arbour press, much handier as vertical instead of horizontal compression means the die can't fall out when you release it.

Did a wee writeup on the UK deerstalking forum with pics here: https://www.thestalkingdirectory.co....sizing.191471/

Bit of an antiquated and time-consuming method but still feasible for making ammo on the road, no press to carry!

I've experimented and in a real SHTF/Mad Max scenario you can use a car jack to compress the die.