Thread: Why you keep old Powder Data Manuals

ADI publishing calibres dropped from new printed manual

Some notables, E.g. 30-40 Krag

http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/handloaders-guide/

Originally Posted by Jhon

ADI publishing calibres dropped from new printed manual

Some notables, E.g. 30-40 Krag

Handloaders’ Guide – ADI World Class Powders and Ammunition

The heathens!
GPM.
Seriously their data was almost as old as the cartridge and none of it pressure tested. Having searched for a bit for any data for the .30 US Army a lot of it is conflicting so I use light .308W loads with AR2206H and chronograph.

Greetings again,
Dug out my records as I really should sort out some .30-40 loads for some target shooting. The only pressure tested data I can find came from Dupont and was published in Handloader in 1974. It appears that IMR 4895 and IMR4831 data was recent at the time but the rest is much older. There is a glitch in the IMR4895 data which shows much lower loads and velocity but the same pressure as faster powders. This data is still on the Hodgdons web site 50 years later, warts and all. So how de we find our way through this conundrum? For me this involves graphing the data which makes it easier to visualise than just columns of figures. I will post a worked example tomorrow.
Regards Grandpamac.

Greetings,
Above is an example of the graphs I use for sorting out load data. The scanning seems to have picked up another graph on the reverse side of the sheet. I have plotted data from a number of sources for IMR4895, H4895 and AR2206H. As you can see there is not much agreement with the only pressure tested data from IMR being an outlier. The capacity of the .30-40 case is close to that of the .308 but operates at much lower pressure and velocity so all else being even the velocity delivered by the same load at the same pressure should be similar. Much of the data has been worked up in Krag rifles with barrel groove diameters of .310" or more and long throats either cut or burnt that way. My rifle has neither of these things so pressure and velocity should be higher. How much? I don't know but need to find out.
Currently there are some loads for the 150 grain projectile with 32 grains of AR2206H. These have shot well in my .30-40 and the same load in my .308 chronographs around 1,900 fps. 38 grains of AR2206H with the 150 grain in my .308 chronographs 2,380 fps so it is likely that the .30-40 should be close to this given their similar capacity. Unfortunately I have yet to chronograph a single load in the .30-40 so this will be the next step with the 32 grain loads I already have. If this checks out then working up to the Hodgdons start load of around 38 grains will be next which should be fine for shooting targets at 300 yards.
Regards Grandpamac.

Awesome...perhaps load data has far greater tolerances than we are often led to expect. After all, folk may report pressure signs when (wisely) working up a load, but its not often we see or hear about blown barrels or actions. Can we say that published data advises a range to work within that ought to be safe but is neither guaranteed nor necessarily the full workable range? Experience becomes invaluable. Trial with a minimum of error.

Originally Posted by Jhon

Awesome...perhaps load data has far greater tolerances than we are often led to expect. After all, folk may report pressure signs when (wisely) working up a load, but its not often we see or hear about blown barrels or actions. Can we say that published data advises a range to work within that ought to be safe but is neither guaranteed nor necessarily the full workable range? Experience becomes invaluable. Trial with a minimum of error.

Indeed there is a huge safety margin. The published values to my knowledge will be the "hottest" accurate load below saami spec. Any manufacturer of actions will put a large safety factor into the design of their actions to be safe from lawsuits.

But that margin is necessary. There are plenty of morons out there that have no clue what they are doing trying to "reload" for their 300 win mag with muzzle break that they want to do long range hunting with but can't hit an a4 paper on 100m...

Why reloading? because their mate told them its cheaper and more accurate, can get better speed...

Reloading is still largely unregulated.

All it takes for that to change is one of these morons blowing up his rifle and injuring the guy next to him on the shooting range...

I personally do not care about 100fps, makes NO dofference.

Thats why I stay away from maximum loads. The deer wont notice the difference and I like my eyesight...

@STC 100%

Greetings Again,
It is going to be hot outside again today so I was pottering about on the computer. I had noted that the ADI data included no loads for AR2208 for the .30-40 Krag, a notable omission as the burn rate would just about ideal. Next I checked the Hodgdons data and to my surprise here is some data and with pressures as well. The pressures are in CUP as there likely is not a max in PSI established for the .30-40. The start load with the 150 grain is 40 grains of Varget for 2,567 fps at 35,100 CUP and max 43.5 grains for 2.727 fps at 39,200 CUP. This lines up pretty well with the old data I have for IMR4604. It also makes the old data for IMR4895 look even more out of step. This data likely dates from the time when new manufacture IMR4895 was replacing the bulk military stuff which likely varied greatly from lot to lot. All this goes to prove that even an old dog can sniff out a truffle now and then.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by Jhon

ADI publishing calibres dropped from new printed manual

Some notables, E.g. 30-40 Krag

Handloaders’ Guide – ADI World Class Powders and Ammunition

Either I need glasses or there is no 303 Brit?

Originally Posted by Three O'Three

Either I need glasses or there is no 303 Brit?

If a calibre previously listed is not in the list in link then that would be a good thing. The list is of those they have dropped from the printed manual.

Greetings,
Printed manuals often get purged to allow for later developments but the data usually stays on web sites. I use the Nosler, Hodgdons and AD! ones plus loaddata.com and my banana boxes of old Handloader mags. I seldom come up empty.
GPM.