Thread: >17's

Originally Posted by sakkaranz

as this is a varminting and small game post then to compare the overkill ability on deer of the 223 is out of whack .. the original question was is the .17 suitable for rabbits and magpies

If its suitable isn't even a question, its what its designed for.

Your post could be read to suggest it was superior to 223 on all game, i. Would suggest with appropriate projectile selection 223 is superior on all game at all relevant ranges.

What is your definition of long range would be my first question?
If it was up too 150m with the odd 200m shot then I'd say 17hmr. No messing around reloading, and they really aren't that expensive.

If it was mainly around 200m and you didn't mind reloading, I'd probably say the new 17HH. But I've had no experience with it.

If it was 300m+ then I'd say 204 Ruger or 223. I wouldn't bother with any of the .17 centrefires, as they are all not as good as 204 Ruger (due to poo BC bullets), and they hardly shoot any faster. Along with they aren't as common so brass for them isn't as easy to come by and be more expensive.
223 is good as you can get some exceptionally good ammo for very cheap. I've been shooting Hornady Training Steel case ammo, that cost me $0.80 per round, which gives me well under an inch at 100m all day every day.
If you reload 223 gives you the advantage of using both light weight varmint bullets and heavy weight target bullets, if you ever wanted to try some serious long range bunny busting. Provided you get a gun with the right barrel twist.

It seems theres some confusion with 223's which to me sit a little odd in the market as I personally think this round is to large for rabbits and magpies and to small for deer and pigs.

I'm looking to shoot out to 400, 500 yards max! So the poor .22 just doesn't cut it anymore.

I'd like an out of the box set up just for ease of ammunition but if a wildcat is going to deliver I guess i'll just have to bight the bullet and invest in some reloading gear.

Originally Posted by .375H&H

I'm looking to shoot out to 400, 500 yards max!

I'd like an out of the box set up just for ease of ammunition but if a wildcat is going to deliver I guess i'll just have to bight the bullet and invest in some reloading gear.

I suggest you get in touch with a couple of our forum advertisers and see what they can do for you

The Gun Digest Book of Long-Range Shooting - Lp Brezny - Google Books

Originally Posted by .375H&H

It seems theres some confusion with 223's which to me sit a little odd in the market as I personally think this round is to large for rabbits and magpies and to small for deer and pigs.

I'm looking to shoot out to 400, 500 yards max! So the poor .22 just doesn't cut it anymore.

I'd like an out of the box set up just for ease of ammunition but if a wildcat is going to deliver I guess i'll just have to bight the bullet and invest in some reloading gear.

I use my .223 on hares and the like out to 500+ happily. If you want any measured consistency at those ranges your going to need an increase in calibre.

Originally Posted by .375H&H

It seems theres some confusion with 223's which to me sit a little odd in the market as I personally think this round is to large for rabbits and magpies and to small for deer and pigs.

I'm looking to shoot out to 400, 500 yards max! So the poor .22 just doesn't cut it anymore.

I'd like an out of the box set up just for ease of ammunition but if a wildcat is going to deliver I guess i'll just have to bight the bullet and invest in some reloading gear.

There's no reason to think 223 is too big for small pests. Too get out too those ranges your going to be pushing the limits of a 22-250, and into 243 territory. Both which are bigger than 223. 22-250 is a very good round, but in my opinion it is best suited in a tighter twist than what comes standard in pretty much all rifles.

There are plenty of people here that use 223 on deer, with a decent bullet and right placement there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to take deer up to 200m.

I'd say a 22-250 or 204 Ruger would be best for your needs, but I'd say 223 and 243 are also good considerations. There are wildcats that may be a tad better, but a lot of the time they aren't worth the extra effort.

I use .223 as my go to rifle ,I enjoy them to shoot both my windham is flavour of the month right now can consistently shoot rabbits at 300 to 350 not so 380 on tikka is also a consistent killer out to 400 on rabbits( good conditions a must )both are 400 plus on goats and wallabies. Have shot deer with both at 200 plus no prob they didn't move an inch after being shot in the neck and no lost meat to bullet damage.have done drop sheets out too 500and zeroed at200yds (have fired and confirmed zero)when I get the chance I will check. And shoot at other ranges to. Confirm clicks .i am new to adjustable scopes so abit of learning to go there but with right info I think I can have a400yd rabbit gun

Originally Posted by .375H&H

It seems theres some confusion with 223's which to me sit a little odd in the market as I personally think this round is to large for rabbits and magpies and to small for deer and pigs.

I'm looking to shoot out to 400, 500 yards max! So the poor .22 just doesn't cut it anymore.

I'd like an out of the box set up just for ease of ammunition but if a wildcat is going to deliver I guess i'll just have to bight the bullet and invest in some reloading gear.

I personally agree with your statement regarding the .223. For me too it seems to be somewhere in the middle of 'no man's land', however, it does appear to have it's share of followers and devotees!

At the lower end of the scale I have a .22LR, for when the going gets tough (financial going that is) also, a .17HMR, and shoot rabbits with the HMR out to 150m sometimes (very rarely) managing 200m, however, if you're wanting to shoot rabbits out to 4 or 500 yards then I'd suggest you're up for something far more than a mere .17 Remington Fireball, or even a .223 for that matter! I also have a .22-250 for medium game (goats, Roos etc) however, firing a 60grain Sierra bullet, if I could nobble rabbits 'consistently' at 350m (I've never done that before) I'd be doing handstands!

Also, there's the cost to consider! It makes me laugh how some forum members are under the illusion that the .17HMR is very cheap to run. If you're one of them then you're either onto a very cheap source of ammo (let me in on it too) or you've never seen rabbits before!

Consider this: My best "day" rabbit shooting netted me 617 "DEAD" (not maimed or wounded) rabbits. I was running a strike rate of 1.39 to 1, so with 857 shots fired at a cost of $0.34 per round ($170 per brick, hate to think what they're costing these days) = $291.59 just for ammo alone for 1 (one) days shooting! So, as you can see, as much as I'm partial to a good day out walking the hills, I always cringe when a mate rings me up and suggests we go for another spot of bunny bashing!(possibly another 4-5 hundred dollars for a day!) But, then again I suppose no ammunition is cheap these days!

My mate tells me he's loading his .22 Hornet, on the cheap, for around 30 - 35 cents per round, but I don't know how he'd get on at 4 or 500 yards either... hopelessly underguned I'd say!

Originally Posted by Bernie

I use .223 as my go to rifle ,I enjoy them to shoot both my windham is flavour of the month right now can consistently shoot rabbits at 300 to 350 not so 380 on tikka is also a consistent killer out to 400 on rabbits( good conditions a must )both are 400 plus on goats and wallabies. Have shot deer with both at 200 plus no prob they didn't move an inch after being shot in the neck and no lost meat to bullet damage.have done drop sheets out too 500and zeroed at200yds (have fired and confirmed zero)when I get the chance I will check. And shoot at other ranges to. Confirm clicks .i am new to adjustable scopes so abit of learning to go there but with right info I think I can have a400yd rabbit gun

what 223 round are you using on goats out to 400+?
a 400 yard .223 rabbit gun is no problem. but in saying that. you need the right scope. and for myself I put the .223 in two groups... number 1 group is a standard twist, I think that's 12:1 which I believe gives you a heavy 55gr bullet.
number 2 group is a fast twist with a handload. (which is my .223, 8:1) this allows a much higher b.c 80gr bullet.
so as you could imagine group two is better for long range. the 80gr amax has nearly the same bc as a 152gr 7mm projectile. (rougly about .52 g1) as we all know its wind that makes the difference at long range, try beating that with your .17 or .20 cal.

Originally Posted by Remington 5R .300 Win Mag

I personally agree with your statement regarding the .223. For me too it seems to be somewhere in the middle of 'no man's land', however, it does appear to have it's share of followers and devotees!

At the lower end of the scale I have a .22LR, for when the going gets tough (financial going that is) also, a .17HMR, and shoot rabbits with the HMR out to 150m sometimes (very rarely) managing 200m, however, if you're wanting to shoot rabbits out to 4 or 500 yards then I'd suggest you're up for something far more than a mere .17 Remington Fireball, or even a .223 for that matter! I also have a .22-250 for medium game (goats, Roos etc) however, firing a 60grain Sierra bullet, if I could nobble rabbits 'consistently' at 350m (I've never done that before) I'd be doing handstands!

Also, there's the cost to consider! It makes me laugh how some forum members are under the illusion that the .17HMR is very cheap to run. If you're one of them then you're either onto a very cheap source of ammo (let me in on it too) or you've never seen rabbits before!

Consider this: My best "day" rabbit shooting netted me 617 "DEAD" (not maimed or wounded) rabbits. I was running a strike rate of 1.39 to 1, so with 857 shots fired at a cost of $0.34 per round ($170 per brick, hate to think what they're costing these days) = $291.59 just for ammo alone for 1 (one) days shooting! So, as you can see, as much as I'm partial to a good day out walking the hills, I always cringe when a mate rings me up and suggests we go for another spot of bunny bashing!(possibly another 4-5 hundred dollars for a day!) But, then again I suppose no ammunition is cheap these days!

My mate tells me he's loading his .22 Hornet, on the cheap, for around 30 - 35 cents per round, but I don't know how he'd get on at 4 or 500 yards either... hopelessly underguned I'd say!

For that amount of rabbits, anything larger than a 22lr is going to be expensive to shoot. I don't find 17hmr that expensive, $0.50 per shot, I couldn't reload 223 for that cheap, and it takes up time also. Buying another gun and setting up everything to get a bit cheaper is not really on the agenda either.
But then I'm not shooting that many rabbits in one go.

Originally Posted by Beetroot

For that amount of rabbits, anything larger than a 22lr is going to be expensive to shoot. I don't find 17hmr that expensive, $0.50 per shot, I couldn't reload 223 for that cheap, and it takes up time also. Buying another gun and setting up everything to get a bit cheaper is not really on the agenda either.
But then I'm not shooting that many rabbits in one go.

Man, is it $0.50 per shot now? I haven't been in the game for so long, that figure I quoted was ten years ago, basically to the day, however, it wasn't uncommon to get three or four hundred rabbits in a day 'easy', and at 50 cents per round = about $300 per day (given one's strike rate and "your" quote of the current cost of .17HMR ammo) and that's "Savage!" And if "you" ever do come across that number of rabbits, I'm sure you will agree the price is savage also! (unless you can get some sort of "Government Sponsorship" ie a pay-out from the farmer, or a couple of bricks of ammo, both of which I've never had!)

I'm not sure what my mate loads his .223 for, he no doubt has told me, however, I've forgotten!

Hi bully I using a vortex 4-5 to 16 on a windham 20inch barrei varmint jobs The tikka leupold vx3 varmint recticle (which I find quite efficient) both are loaded 26 grains bm2 nosler ballistic tip which I find good on rabbits to deer(55grain)and rem5r I do do back flips after those shots but it's taken a lot of shooting and trail and error to get there should have seen me when I flattened a wallaby at 500 or so yds got plenty of those at 300 . I' do think I am nearing my limit and ability but not the gears all are ranged with a leica range finder and witnessed usually I can't run sub 4 min kms but it don't mean someone else can't (happy to run 6 min kms these days to tell the truth)

Fuck. I'm doing it all wrong!

But here is what I am doing If it's a heavily loaded block and the rabbits are quiet in with the .22 and subs morning and night. Once they get towy start spotlighting with the .22 and subs. Once they are over that the .223 comes out both night and day shooting. This all of course changes with the ground conditions. If there is a lot of long grass around the 22-sub combo is the only way to go spotlighting as they just hold (read hide) on that long grass.
There will never be a 17HMR in the box. Over priced ammo and doesn't really perform, plus it can't cut scrub. 17 hornet on the other hand maybe, a lot cheaper to run than the rimfire version and by all reports it performs.

I loaned one of the 223's to the cockie where I'm working, he wants me to get him one after using it and fuck the cost of the ammo. They work.

Note here: I catch anyone shooting much past 200 and they are out of there. Hit rates drop and you create spooked rabbits, fuck that, the job is hard enough already. In fact it's thing's like that that are the reason cockies don't let people on

Quite agree about educating rabbits with lots of misses and I enjoy the 22 suppressed had great results with that method . On 1 farm we shot we start by walking fence line with shot ties once that became un productive suppressed 22( this is over a month or so) move onto 223 after that spotlight pretty much like u said . Not doin as job farmer no paying all happy with results. noticed they get more spooky in close rather than out abit(if 22shooter is not that good)like I said not doin it as a job more of a favour and farmers hAppy with results