Thread: why is .22LR ammo so expensive now?

Originally Posted by Cyclops

It is market forces that determine prices.

We are a small country with (relatively) few shooters.

On a world scale NZs orders for complete rounds, components, powder are relatively small and won't command great prices.

Freight makes a significant impact of prices.

It is harsh to blame importers or resellers. They have to make a living too.
I don't think they're ripping us off.

I've always tried to purchase in bulk to be able to ask for a discount, but I don't begrudge others making a living.

The last time I bought 22LR ammunition I bought 5,000 rounds - a carton of 10 bricks.
That was before any shortage and I'm glad I did.

Oh they are ripping us off alright, anyone running a business will have an insight into the gross margins being made on a lot of goods being sold to the retail market.
Case in point, just recently I was in need of some water based varnish to seal some plywood, phoning a well known painty reseller, I was quoted a four figure amount for 20 litres of said varnish. When I complained, they asked if I hadf a friend with a trade account I could use, being a builder, I was able to do so and the price was slashed by over 50% and the reseller would still have been making margin on that......

RRP doesn't mean anything. A place I used to buy stainless screws from would give me a 86% discount off the retail price, and they were far cheaper than Bunnings etc to start with.

Below from Shooting Stuff, my normal source of 22 ammo.
(Re RWS, both they and Norma now sold by RUAG to Beretta)


We know a lot of you have been asking when we will be getting our next shipment of ammunition and unfortunately this hasn't been an easy question to answer.

We placed our order in October last year, however shortly after our order was placed we were advised that RUAG (RWS) was going through a change of ownership and this has created a huge headache for us. The new owners don't know how to finalise our order or even give us updated pricing and at this stage haven't actually been able to confirm our order.

So, long story short we won't be seeing any RWS ammunition this season. We know this isn't ideal for anyone and not at all what we hoped we would be updating you all on.

As a consequence because we aren't bringing out a container of RWS this also means it is not economic for us to bring out Eley. Unfortunately the pricing of freight means that we would have to substantially increase the price of the ammunition if we did bring it out on its own and this isn't something we want to do to shooters.

Again, we understand this isn't an ideal situation but we are stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one and all we can do is apologise, we have tried our best to make this work.

Originally Posted by Zedrex

Oh they are ripping us off alright, anyone running a business will have an insight into the gross margins being made on a lot of goods being sold to the retail market.
Case in point, just recently I was in need of some water based varnish to seal some plywood, phoning a well known painty reseller, I was quoted a four figure amount for 20 litres of said varnish. When I complained, they asked if I hadf a friend with a trade account I could use, being a builder, I was able to do so and the price was slashed by over 50% and the reseller would still have been making margin on that......

I bet you're referring to Placemakers aka Moneymakers! It's their company policy to rip off joe blogs to subsidize tradies!

I wouldnt really say that, certain items have a large markup but if it wasn't for stores selling those items they can't make any money of guns/ammo to keep the store running with staff etc as the markup is like barely 30% for firearms/ammo this recent batch of powder, for example, was $6 frieght per a kg on top of the wholesale cost to get it to the south island, and when it comes to the trade accounts, that is simply profit by volume, they might buy in a week what some people will buy in a year. To be fair though, it is going to be interesting that Beretta will be bringing in norma/rws, I don't think it will be good for the community/pricing for one wholesaler becoming so big

Originally Posted by Zedrex

Oh they are ripping us off alright, anyone running a business will have an insight into the gross margins being made on a lot of goods being sold to the retail market.
Case in point, just recently I was in need of some water based varnish to seal some plywood, phoning a well known painty reseller, I was quoted a four figure amount for 20 litres of said varnish. When I complained, they asked if I hadf a friend with a trade account I could use, being a builder, I was able to do so and the price was slashed by over 50% and the reseller would still have been making margin on that......

I wouldnt really say that, certain items have a large markup but if it wasn't for stores selling those items they can't make any money of guns/ammo to keep the store running with staff etc as the markup is like barely 30% for firearms/ammo this recent batch of powder, for example, was $6 frieght per a kg on top of the wholesale cost to get it to the south island, and when it comes to the trade accounts, that is simply profit by volume, they might buy in a week what some people will buy in a year. To be fair though, it is going to be interesting that Beretta will be bringing in norma/rws, I don't think it will be good for the community/pricing for one wholesaler becoming so big

So does that mean Geco is now owned by Beretta as well?

Originally Posted by Steve123

So does that mean Geco is now owned by Beretta as well?

I presume it included RWS, Norma, GECO, Rottweil shotshells.

I desperately needed some 22 hornet ammo, after ringing around I did find a shop with remmy at 135 for 50. Got a box of 20 fed at same time and don't ask the price. Make a man weep long n hard. A week later I pulled off the hiway just in case and struck gold, 50 rounds of winnie at 88 bucks. Five went home with me, my mate brought over 600 hammer projectiles so should be OK for the next month or three. Earlier paid 65 dollars for 22lr brick, 300 rounds.

Originally Posted by Bert 71

I bet you're referring to Placemakers aka Moneymakers! It's their company policy to rip off joe blogs to subsidize tradies!

If you've ever been stuck behind Joe Bloggs handyman when your in a hurry to get back to site while he explains he needs something half an arm span plus three fingernails long by one thumb thick and some thingy you knows. . Your glad they discourage them

Originally Posted by Steve123

So does that mean Geco is now owned by Beretta as well?

Correct.

Unfortunately it is a hard pill to swallow and im sure some of you will say im full of shit, but as an end user, but also in the trade, I see margins from factory to store. It is not a lie when i can honestly tell you that the ammo margins are the lowest of any product line in the outdoor industry and lowest they have ever been. The supply constraints out of Europe at the moment has lead to production limitations and massive demand. Then the US market going crazy has lead to a mentality where components made in the US stay in the US. They do not leave to go supply production units around the world. Also, when people say "Ukraine isnt having an impact" i can tell you it is. Not directly being used in the fighting, but neighbours stockpilling incase things get out of hand. The next big one is freight. Thankfully it is coming down, but is still 150-200% than what was being charged pre covid. A store owner was saying the other day that ammo is the worst product to stock from a returns stand point, but at the end of the day, it brings customers into the store who hopefully may pick something else up once there.

Originally Posted by zimmer

I presume it included RWS, Norma, GECO, Rottweil shotshells.

Beretta buys Norma, RWS, Rottweil, Geco
ZAC KURYLYK IN AMMO ON MARCH 14, 2022

Beretta has purchased one of Europe's major ammunition manufacturing groups, and will be taking control of several well-known cartridge companies as a result.

The deal sees Beretta buying RUAG Ammotec, which is a very large company with 2,700 employees and branches all over Europe (RUAG's website claims employees in Switzerland, Germany, Sweden, Hungary, USA, Austria, UK, France, Belgium, Italy and Finland). We haven't seen a price tag on the deal yet, and it is still subject to regulator approval.

Should the deal go through, Beretta will own "the leading European provider for small caliber ammunition." That includes such brands as Norma, Rottweil Munitions, Geco, and RWS, which should be well-known names to keen Canadian shooters. Norma and Rottweil, for instance, are well-known for their high-end sporting cartridges, relied upon by dangerous game hunters and other shooters needing quality when it matters the most.

Furthermore, RUAG is also a major supplier of European armed forces and police (including the German and Swiss militaries). Obviously, a European business supplying European military clients is going to be very busy these days.

After the deal was announced, André Wall, CEO of RUAG International, said "We are taking the next step to withdraw from the defense-related business completely. We are pleased to have found a renowned industrial partner for Ammotec in Beretta, who will take over all employees and the Thun site. With its industry experience and global presence, Beretta offers the best conditions to sustainably grow Ammotec's business activities for the benefit of customers and employees." No real explanation there as to why RUAG would want to step back, but Beretta seems likely to make a lot of money off the deal, as there is no shortage of demand for ammo these days.

The deal will add five factories and 16 companies to Beretta's holdings, and almost double its workforce, growing turnover to 1.5 billion euros. Could it be 2022's biggest powerplay in the firearms industry? With civilian ammo shortages and war drums beating, it seems quite possible.

Originally Posted by mcche171

Unfortunately it is a hard pill to swallow and im sure some of you will say im full of shit, but as an end user, but also in the trade, I see margins from factory to store. It is not a lie when i can honestly tell you that the ammo margins are the lowest of any product line in the outdoor industry and lowest they have ever been. The supply constraints out of Europe at the moment has lead to production limitations and massive demand. Then the US market going crazy has lead to a mentality where components made in the US stay in the US. They do not leave to go supply production units around the world. Also, when people say "Ukraine isnt having an impact" i can tell you it is. Not directly being used in the fighting, but neighbours stockpilling incase things get out of hand. The next big one is freight. Thankfully it is coming down, but is still 150-200% than what was being charged pre covid. A store owner was saying the other day that ammo is the worst product to stock from a returns stand point, but at the end of the day, it brings customers into the store who hopefully may pick something else up once there.

That `s about it....you are right. But even the markup for ammo is low, it `s still a very profitably business, better than making FMCG and it `s not perishable products like milk powders. The only challenge is the marginal cost align with the capital investment risk, and the costs of operating in highly regulated markets if the manufacture do `t have trusted distributors in those regions. Maybe someday soon, I can be relaxed in NZ, I would run an ammo factory since it `s no different than making chemical electric parts like I did before.

What are those key factors for quality in you gents no matter from customer `s point of view, or from any others? I would like to hear about, thank you.

Originally Posted by muzza

Winchester US ammo is not a patch on Aussie made ammo. It is plinking ammo at best . Same goes for Remington as well.

CCI is the best of the US made , with Federal a close-ish third.

But ultimately your gun will tell you what ammo it likes best.

Price ? We are a tiny market at the end of the planet , with very limited competition amongst importers. What that means is our small orders often dont get filled , and the importers screw us on price.

Does that answer the original question?

At the price winchester sells for, it's way too expensive for plinking!
It only NZ still had the CAC factory, we still would have had NZ made ammo which would have bought more competition.
I bought a brick of Aquila ammo that was about 80 dollars at gun city. That's worked out the best value for plinking.
I still have some CCI that I use for possums and rabbits and should last until the next shipment. They tell me it will cost alot more than I paid last year for their remaining 3 packets.
We may be a tiny market, but NZ must go through a ton of .22 ammo, still unclear why shotgun hasn't seen the same rate of increase either.