Thread: 1080 question

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

If you decide that it is no good, what you could do is mince it and use it for Burley and tell your friends and workmates never to vote for the Green Party

So if it was 1080 would one just be moving the contamination from animal to fish?

Originally Posted by DavidGunn

So if it was 1080 would one just be moving the contamination from animal to fish?

I think that Strummer would have them caught and cracked on the head before they got to digest any burley.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

What does the terrain look like - what is between the two areas?

Just beech forest, no vegetation change, the line is a valley over

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

I think that Strummer would have them caught and cracked on the head before they got to digest any burley.

But but but...what about those that were not caught?...I suppose not any different to the rats and possums poisoned in the bush and washed down the streams to the sea, I guess something eats them.

It's all about assessing and managing risk.
Basically to run the remotest chance of getting a detectable amount of 1080 in your system you would need to eat 100 kg of venison from a poisoned animal in one sitting.
You probably have more chance of being poisoned by a green potato or silverbeet than the venison.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

It's all about assessing and managing risk.
Basically to run the remotest chance of getting a detectable amount of 1080 in your system you would need to eat 100 kg of venison from a poisoned animal in one sitting.
You probably have more chance of being poisoned by a green potato or silverbeet than the venison.

Interesting. Where did these figures come from? Thanks

Originally Posted by DavidGunn

But but but...what about those that were not caught?...I suppose not any different to the rats and possums poisoned in the bush and washed down the streams to the sea, I guess something eats them.

The amount of 1080 that is potentially in the deer carcase is low- below the lethal dose for deer. Diluting it over a large area and many fish would mean that the rate would be negligible and well below a rate harmful to fish

Thanks for all the serious replies. I'm probably going to have to dump it...even though I know it's 97% likely to be safe to eat. Talked about it with the missus. With our little kids I'm not going to risk their health. Its a really crap situation to throw out a heap of prime meat...and a shame to kill a nice animal for ultimately no reason. A learning lesson for me...study the DoC control map more closely before you go. Take a photo of the map, take it with ya.

Originally Posted by Huntfisheat

Do people kill an animal and not check the offal? Seriously? Basic meat gathering and butchering skills demand that, surely?
Anyway, no!
Time and weather are the 1080 killers. In Canterbury most of the last 1080 dumps will have been negated by the occasional extreme rain event, but I won't be hunting those areas for at least 3 months regardless. There's plenty of game around and why take the risk?

If its well cooked, what is there to harm you (outside of the 1080 question)?

https://www.mpi.govt.nz/dmsdocument/1059/direct

Update your will, write a farewell letter and eat it all to yourself...

Originally Posted by Strummer

Interesting. Where did these figures come from? Thanks

Deer and other living animals except dogs metabolise sub lethal doses of 1080 quite rapidly, basically every 9 hours the amount of the poison in the body halves. So a 100 kg animal that had eaten 10 baits would have consumed enough 1080 to have a .2 mg/kg concentration in its body. It would be ill but the fatal dose is .5mg/kg so it would recover. After 9 hours the 1080 concentration in its body would have dropped to .1 and 9 hours later it would be .05 then .025, .0125, etc till after 8 days all traces would be gone.
So say your deer has eaten 10 pellets 2 hours before you shoot it which gives time for the poison to distribute around the body, it will be bloody unwell and probably grateful to you for shooting it.
You now have a dead deer with a concentration of .2 mg/kg of meat. As it's dead that concentration remains pretty constant it doesn't drop like it does in a live animal.
You eat 1 kg at a sitting (because you are a big eater and bloody hungry) so you have consumed .2 mg of 1080 which is now being distributed around your 100 kg body which gives you a body concentration of .0002 mg of 1080 or 1000th of the dose that made the deer ill and your body is happily getting rid of half of it every 9 hours.
So I'd happily eat your deer.
As to the source of these figures the attached file is a zoology paper on it and brodi. Personally I am more concerned about brodi as an environmentally persistent poison with serious potential to bioaccumulate than I am about 1080.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Deer and other living animals except dogs metabolise sub lethal doses of 1080 quite rapidly, basically every 9 hours the amount of the poison in the body halves. So a 100 kg animal that had eaten 10 baits would have consumed enough 1080 to have a .2 mg/kg concentration in its body. It would be ill but the fatal dose is .5mg/kg so it would recover. After 9 hours the 1080 concentration in its body would have dropped to .1 and 9 hours later it would be .05 then .025, .0125, etc till after 8 days all traces would be gone.
So say your deer has eaten 10 pellets 2 hours before you shoot it which gives time for the poison to distribute around the body, it will be bloody unwell and probably grateful to you for shooting it.
You now have a dead deer with a concentration of .2 mg/kg of meat. As it's dead that concentration remains pretty constant it doesn't drop like it does in a live animal.
You eat 1 kg at a sitting (because you are a big eater and bloody hungry) so you have consumed .2 mg of 1080 which is now being distributed around your 100 kg body which gives you a body concentration of .0002 mg of 1080 or 1000th of the dose that made the deer ill and your body is happily getting rid of half of it every 9 hours.
So I'd happily eat your deer.
As to the source of these figures the attached file is a zoology paper on it and brodi. Personally I am more concerned about brodi as an environmentally persistent poison with serious potential to bioaccumulate than I am about 1080.

But it pays to be aware that the 1080 concentration in the muscle of a dead deer can be a lot higher than 0.5mg/kg, as quoted in the paper you link.
And the LD50 is the amount to kill half the population, therefore half the population could have higher levels without dying.

Take it around to Charlie Easons place and get him to test it. Works at LCR Lincoln. He is always writing about how safe 1080 is - used to say ' breaks down to harmless chemicals in water' Could never describe the reaction though despite requests

If in doubt just eat Keas, we know that they don't take baits

Well....for a brief moment in time...this thread was sensible!