Thread: .222 .223 .222mag .5.56.. THE CALIBRE OF CHOICE FOR MANY HUNTERS

This is what the forum needs Scribe good to have you back on here.

Jasen

Originally Posted by sakokid

Hey scribe thanks for sharing. Good informative information.

+1

Originally Posted by TeRei

Hardie said when you were in Nam you were too scared to leave camp and he had to do all your shooting for you.Hardie also said you thought the Viet Cong were descended from the ghosts of Aorangi.

How would Hardie know what I was doing Te Rei. He was suffering MPI ( Mental Paralysis of the Insane) from a long untreated attack of syphilis.

Originally Posted by Neckshot

This is what the forum needs Scribe good to have you back on here.

Jasen

Thanks Jason, I am going to burn out at this rate and have to retreat back to my books.

I have a intense hatred for the heart shot and anyone I take will be instructed to shoot for the lungs and how to.
But more than that I really really hate how virtually every piece of literature instructs people to aim for a heart shot, It seems to be an American thing.

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Ah scribe, do you think Willie Peters would have liked me? I would have married him for sure!

Great to have you back, thank you for sharing all of the above.

It is why I love this forum. Every thread I go someone have a great subject to discuss, jokes apart this thread has been GREAT to me. I use a 7mm Mag for my general hunt and I shot 3 or 4 deer with my .223, all of them drop on the spot and one walk no more than 40 metres up hill, except one shot that was just over 100mts the others was around 50-60.
In all the cases I did a neck shot.
Reading all the posts in this thread make me rethink all my attitude regards shot placement and if I will in the future try to shoot any animal further than 150mts with my .223.
I use a heavier projectile(Sierra 65gr SPBT) than the ones described here.
Thank you a lot all of you guys for make this forum so instructive.
All the best.
Mac

I am pretty sure the heart shot comes out of Africa, different situation and suits the style of hunting there, less hilly and normally hunting with highly skilled specialist trackers to follow the blood spoor that is still there because winter is dry and it doesn't get washed away, it is not unheard of to go back to a blood spoor after 3 or 4 days when trying to find a wounded animal.
I agree it is not a great shot for NZ conditions.

Don't want to get into this argument as I am firmly against using .22 centre fires on anything bigger than fallow.

All I will say is that Bell shot over a thousand elephants with a 7x57, yes he was an expert at shot placement and picking his shots, but I still wouldn't advocate it as a great elephant calibre.

Originally Posted by Dougie

Ah scribe, do you think Willie Peters would have liked me? I would have married him for sure!

Great to have you back, thank you for sharing all of the above.

Its always good to hear from you

I think 'Willie Peters' would have wanted to do lot with you than just give you a 'LIKE' Dougie.

I was a good thing I dropped off I got that book finished. I spend to much time on here.

I will give myself the summer before I start another.

I plan on hitting the road this year and catching up on a lot of members.

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

I have a intense hatred for the heart shot and anyone I take will be instructed to shoot for the lungs and how to.
But more than that I really really hate how virtually every piece of literature instructs people to aim for a heart shot, It seems to be an American thing.

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Hi Cam, Yes its is amazing how little is really known about the heart shot. Probably the worst part of the deal is how many deer are lost from heart shots. When they break it is always directly downhill and 150 yards is a bloody big climb with a stag on your back just to get it back to where you started.

This has had me wondering for a while Cam. These serious shooting accidents where very experienced men have shot another hunter.

Have these very experience men actually shot many deer?. Because they aren't picking their shots. The evidence I have read gives me the impression that they are intent on driving a bullet anywhere into the body of what they have dimly perceived to be a deer.

Surely with roughly only one third the target area being a fatal shot there is a basic flaw in many hunters techniques. Careful bullet placement techniques are indeed not being used here at all.

I have thought about this a bit. Commonly in bush hunting the first thing you see is head movement. So OK I got a head here. Now I got a leg. Now I got a back leg. Half way between these two legs, a foot up from the knuckle start looking for hair and the gap to slide the 223 projectile through. (Actually I am talking more sika here as they are always behind cover when they squeal at you). But it is similar with other species.)

Now if the people that are going to have shooting accidents were actually acquiring certain aiming spots on the deer then surely it would be nearly impossible to mistake a person for a deer?. Again to go further here Cam, as lots of forum members have pointed out already: To kill a deer with a 223 you have to be very selective as to the spot where you place your bullet.

Surely the sensible answer here is to throw the seven or nine rules, such as 'Identify your target' out the bloody window and make all hunters carry 223. There now, problem solved.

Ha ha ha ha.
Unfortunately even then you would still have some people "aiming at the big bit"

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Ha ha ha ha.
Unfortunately even then you would still have some people "aiming at the big bit"

You mean thats not how it works

Originally Posted by Spudattack

I am pretty sure the heart shot comes out of Africa, different situation and suits the style of hunting there, less hilly and normally hunting with highly skilled specialist trackers to follow the blood spoor that is still there because winter is dry and it doesn't get washed away, it is not unheard of to go back to a blood spoor after 3 or 4 days when trying to find a wounded animal.
I agree it is not a great shot for NZ conditions.

Don't want to get into this argument as I am firmly against using .22 centre fires on anything bigger than fallow.

All I will say is that Bell shot over a thousand elephants with a 7x57, yes he was an expert at shot placement and picking his shots, but I still wouldn't advocate it as a great elephant calibre.

Hi there Spudattack, I would suggest the danger of the job, his previous experience allowed Bell to pick the right tools for the job. From what I have read Bell used to shoot his elephants from a distance through two of its knees rendering it nearly harmless before closing in for a brain shot.

Interesting an old hunter and one of NZ greatest conservationist and NZ first recruit to The Wildlife Service in 1944 was Bill Axbey. He died a couple of years back. Along with a 6.5 that his friends built him for his 80th birthday he left me some boxes of papers among which is a finished manuscript and an unfinished manuscript. Bill has 3 published books, great stories especially 'Down The Track' and The Bird Hunters'.

The finished manuscript is called Teeth Of Gold and surprisingly, at least to me, it is about a NZ Elephant Hunter, 'Deaf Banks'. Banks was one of those great elephant hunters of bygone days. This manuscript has some wonderful pictures (Sales Cataloges) from the great English Gun Makers expounding their wares. Some of the descriptions by Bell of the weapons that were made for elephant hunting makes us realise how soft the NZ shooter is by comparison.

One double rifle fired a ball 'four to the pound' there is another described as firing two to the pound. Bell well described, I think it was the four to the pound, as on discharge it spun me around twice and caused my nose to bleed.

Such a weapon is bound to make you flinch, wouldn't you say 'Spudattack or ruin a quick second shot, so maybe at least in Bells case the safest and most effective rifle for him to kill elephants with was the 7x57.

Absolutely, my point is more that in the hands of someone highly experienced and hunting as a profession a light calibre is fine, I wouldn't recommend it to someone wanting to have a go at it though!
I would also suggest that something in between a 7x57 and a 4 bore might be more suitable for someone not as experienced! Bell was known for his dislike of recoil.

An interesting story was told by Selous when in the heat of and assault on a herd of elephant he handed his unfired muzzle loading 4 bore (I could be incorrect on the calibre as writing from memory but will check later) to his gunbearer who promptly put a second charge and ball on top of the existing one and then handed it back to Selous. He writes that the recoil threw him backwards and completely shattered the stock, but did not split the barrel!
He was extremely sensitive to recoil after that!

Thanks Scribe, brilliant information. I'm a new shooter (I call it my mid life crisis) and am working my way up slowly. Interested in your views on the 22x range as from what little experience I've had with my little 223 is that it is devastating and devastatingly accurate within it's, and my, range. This was brought to my attention when I shot a wallaby that was facing me in the neck. The little 55gn projectile went the length of its body and pulverised everything inside. I didn't harvest any meat off that one.

This spring/summer I will be having my first crack at deer. I'm very confident with my shot placement but will likely take a 243 along for the deer as I find I'm just as accurate with the slightly bigger calibre and they will probably give me a slight improvement with odds on my ability to pick the right spot to place the shot. Yes, I go by the thinking of "shoot big, aim small." Will have to drag young @TimeRider along with me with her 243 as well, she needs to blood it still. Even she can happily shoot sub 15mm groups at 100m at the range and will place a shot on a rabbit exactly as I describe to her in the field.