Thread: 223 on deer

No he won’t load as far as I know, although he’s welcome to use my gear, and if it’s a 308 he eventually gets, I’ll happily knock him up some hand loads.

That’s what I’ve done, I’ve got some mild 130’s and my boys shoot it, but I’d say not well. However they seem confident.
There’s definitely a bit of apprehension there. Whereas the 222, no issues.
My 13 year old has shot a deer with each, the 222 was a beautiful shot; clean kill at 150 with a 55gn.
308 took 2 shots, from much less with a 130 gn.

But the long shot was well set up with a rest, and an unsuspecting deer at first light.
The 308 close shot, was under a light, standing, and it was walking away back to bush edge. So there was a bit of pressure on a quick standing shot, when it stopped and looked back quarter on. Probably not a fair comparison, but that’s my main point, when you have a young hunter in a situation like that they’re more than likely going to take a shot.

Had he made the same two shots with the 222, who knows…

That stainless 308 howa or vanguard that sold the day would be a good starter.

You can buy reduced recoil .308 loads...I've seen it forsale in Ashburton,might have to order it in,but it's a thing,as is the big heavy slow option,but that sort of runs into same slower kill issues.

Originally Posted by Tahr

.243 would be great. Then he can down scale or up scale later depending on his taste. Although I'm a fan, .223 is not something you just pick up with a box of any old ammo and go hunting with. Takes a bit of thought.

This sums it up perfectly. The .223 is fantastic in the right hands but it is not a great choice for a newby.

Originally Posted by zeropak

This sums it up perfectly. The .223 is fantastic in the right hands but it is not a great choice for a newby.

Amazing how people are fussing over a few milimieters or less of projectile diameter (this whole thread basically) and fail to account for the following:

1. Bullets have improved a lot since the 50/60's when most of these cartridges were designed, sometimes to the extent that barrel twists have yet to catch up on rifles (another reason to buy newer rifles or re-barrel).

2. Scopes and mounting systems are a major factor in rrifle accuracy that is often glossed over.

3. Shot placement is king.

Point 3. means more practice is better. Factory ammo that is cheap and performs well is a benefit as it saves time (and hence money) sourcing components.

223 and 308 will always have the edge of cheap(er) ammo and long barrel life. Also cheaper or at least more readily available rifles. However, most are going for the heavy bullets in 308 which makes it harder to shoot. A 308 with 175/180/200 grain bullets has more recoil than some 'magnums'. Not a good thing for a newer hunter/shooter.

I like the 308 150gr SSTs,you hardly know you pulled the trigger with a suppressor on.

Originally Posted by caberslash

Amazing how people are fussing over a few milimieters or less of projectile diameter (this whole thread basically) and fail to account for the following:

1. Bullets have improved a lot since the 50/60's when most of these cartridges were designed, sometimes to the extent that barrel twists have yet to catch up on rifles (another reason to buy newer rifles or re-barrel).

2. Scopes and mounting systems are a major factor in rrifle accuracy that is often glossed over.

3. Shot placement is king.

Point 3. means more practice is better. Factory ammo that is cheap and performs well is a benefit as it saves time (and hence money) sourcing components.

223 and 308 will always have the edge of cheap(er) ammo and long barrel life. Also cheaper or at least more readily available rifles. However, most are going for the heavy bullets in 308 which makes it harder to shoot. A 308 with 175/180/200 grain bullets has more recoil than some 'magnums'. Not a good thing for a newer hunter/shooter.

Maybe this style of comment is better put in the other thread. Going down this style of discussion wrecks this threads intent i feel.

Today I had perfect prone rest,both bipod and back pack. Two deer in matagouri less than 150 yards away,rifle sighted in properly( checked 20mi utes earlier harvesting goose breasts off a Canada in place I don't want one to nest lol) both deer resting.I even had a 63 grn projectile in the bigger 22-250 case. I lay there with bolt closed for good five minutes,didn't fire.lifted bolt and waited some more,one deer totally obscured except it's head was visible when it lay neck out to peek around scrub.the other one I could see entire animal,BUT it was laying arse on to me and only feasible shot was neck/head upright in shade at far end of animal.... Fallow have always been my nemisus animal,needed far more follow up shots on them than all the reds n pigs combined. So I waited some more.arse on yearling eventually stood up.giving me view of legs and tiny bit of crutch,it took two steps forward and lay down by its mate completely obscured... The wind was gusty and blow you off feet strong. I walked away leaving deer chewing cud and laughing at me. One day Roger Fits one day...

Originally Posted by caberslash

Amazing how people are fussing over a few milimieters or less of projectile diameter (this whole thread basically) and fail to account for the following:

1. Bullets have improved a lot since the 50/60's when most of these cartridges were designed, sometimes to the extent that barrel twists have yet to catch up on rifles (another reason to buy newer rifles or re-barrel).

2. Scopes and mounting systems are a major factor in rrifle accuracy that is often glossed over.

3. Shot placement is king.

Point 3. means more practice is better. Factory ammo that is cheap and performs well is a benefit as it saves time (and hence money) sourcing components.

223 and 308 will always have the edge of cheap(er) ammo and long barrel life. Also cheaper or at least more readily available rifles. However, most are going for the heavy bullets in 308 which makes it harder to shoot. A 308 with 175/180/200 grain bullets has more recoil than some 'magnums'. Not a good thing for a newer hunter/shooter.

Nobody has suggested a full noise 200 grn load in 308 for a newbie. What a daft thing to say.nobody has suggested full noise 180grn either...I will add the Winchester load used to be great and recoiled less than its 150grn brother. So I really can't understand what three legged hobby horse your trying to sell. All the arguments you use FOR the .223 work even better for the 7.62x39mm for a new shooter but the same range restrictions and discipline still apply.

Originally Posted by whanahuia

Maybe this style of comment is better put in the other thread. Going down this style of discussion wrecks this threads intent i feel.

Tend to agree there. This is one of the few threads on this forum which hasn’t wandered of track so far, be a shame for it to do so now.

Originally Posted by woods223

Tend to agree there. This is one of the few threads on this forum which hasn’t wandered of track so far, be a shame for it to do so now.

Ok. I will freshen it with one at 240 yds. Not hard to kill this size-a yearling buck. 77 TMK.
Bella has taken to laying out like that and sniffing them. Not sure what that’s about.





Craig took it home for a bbq. Sent that pic of it looking like a skinned rabbit. High shoulder shot ruined a bit of back steak.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Nobody has suggested a full noise 200 grn load in 308 for a newbie. What a daft thing to say.nobody has suggested full noise 180grn either...I will add the Winchester load used to be great and recoiled less than its 150grn brother. So I really can't understand what three legged hobby horse your trying to sell. All the arguments you use FOR the .223 work even better for the 7.62x39mm for a new shooter but the same range restrictions and discipline still apply.

Physics does not care about opinions and feelings:

So now your suggesting a 300 win mag is on the table for a first rifle for young fella was an option.... Your so far out of the original question it's laughable if not outright rude. Agree the 243 is a good option ,suppressed even more so.

Originally Posted by Tahr

Ok. I will freshen it with one at 240 yds. Not hard to kill this size-a yearling buck. 77 TMK.
Bella has taken to laying out like that and sniffing them. Not sure what that’s about.

Attachment 259952

Attachment 259951

Craig took it home for a bbq. Sent that pic of it looking like a skinned rabbit. High shoulder shot ruined a bit of back steak.

Go the Bugout.

Originally Posted by caberslash

Physics does not care about opinions and feelings:

Attachment 259968

Brian also says that lighter for caliber projectiles are inherently more accurate than heavy for calibre ones...

And your feelings dont matter.

Some this guy say this n the other guy says that. Recently a guy send some projectiles down range at 1k and got a perfect 10 for ten, damn good that. It wasn't a 243 but my fav 300 wsm.