Thread: 223 on deer

Originally Posted by Hunter_Nick

@greensmurf46 a good bullet in a .224 centrefire can be very destructive. Here’s a pic that I took this morning while butchering the deer I killed last weekend with my 22 creedmoor.
I’ve cut underneath the right shoulder and pulled it down to show damage.
Arrow shows bullet entrance where it completely shattered the major leg bone and joint. Circle is the hole where the bullet went though the ribs (about 2” diameter) The whole right shoulder area was toast, no meat salvageable. Very large wound considering the ‘marginal’ status of the cartridge. Big ELD-Ms fired from big cartridges make a sickening amount of mess.

Attachment 265066

Bullet weight and velocity so it can be compared to the subject .223?

Originally Posted by Tahr

Bullet weight and velocity so it can be compared to the subject .223?

Sure. 88 ELD-M at approx 2700fps impact. A touch more ‘horsepower’ than the 223, but I’ve seen similar with the 223 and ELD-M and TMK.

Ok, im back on the 223 again haha. Glad to see how this thread is going since i started it ages ago.
I have a shite load of Hornady 55gr BTSP ( the bulk ones with cannelure) that ive got a good shooting load for at 3010 fps (short barrel). i tested for the BC ages ago but lost the data, and i know the advertised one is wrong. Anyone got a more accurate BC for them?

I sold my 223 but if I had kept it I would use the Norma factory Oryx loads. I found the American bullets too soft

This is one of those subjects that gets people a bit uppity.

You have to look at the different classes of shooting to get your head around what best practice is with a .224 cal bullet. Obviously the term “best practice” invites all sorts of criticism depending on your own definition of “best” is.

You’ll always hear that it is “unethical” to shoot deer with a .223 when obviously there are numerous “better” choices. But the simple fact is there are lots of professionals who shoot deer with a .223. Ground-based shooters and helicopter shooters, typically with a 62 or 64 grain bullet. I can’t speak for all of them but the ground-based professionals I’ve come across all head shoot deer. I too shoot dozens of deer every year with my .223 1:12” with the 50gr Z-Max. Head shots only. The fellas I hang with all shoot .223, all head shoot, the only exception is the Roar when the 308 or 270 comes out for some close up big boy action. These guys are either shepherds or landowners and all carry a rifle on the bike and most days they will shoot a deer or a goat or several. See them in action and they are machines.

This is just the way it’s done and there’s no point arguing it, especially if you’re only an occasional recreational shooter. I get the concern but it’s just the way it is.

Something to consider is the culling of kangaroos in Australia. The industry standard is the .223 Remington and by law you must head shoot the animal. Chest shots are only permitted for injured animals on the run. A couple of fellas have tried to convince me that a deer doesn’t behave the same way as a kangaroo but if you put some hours in on the hill you will know that a deer isn’t a rooting pig, for example, and there’s plenty of time to shoot it in the head. Just have to be patient and wait for the right moment.

so that’s what I would do @NewbieZAR. You’ll be a good enough shot for that no problem. If it’s not for you then use another cartridge with a wider, heavier bullet.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

This is one of those subjects that gets people a bit uppity.

You have to look at the different classes of shooting to get your head around what best practice is with a .224 cal bullet. Obviously the term “best practice” invites all sorts of criticism depending on your own definition of “best” is.

You’ll always hear that it is “unethical” to shoot deer with a .223 when obviously there are numerous “better” choices. But the simple fact is there are lots of professionals who shoot deer with a .223. Ground-based shooters and helicopter shooters, typically with a 62 or 64 grain bullet. I can’t speak for all of them but the ground-based professionals I’ve come across all head shoot deer. I too shoot dozens of deer every year with my .223 1:12” with the 50gr Z-Max. Head shots only. The fellas I hang with all shoot .223, all head shoot, the only exception is the Roar when the 308 or 270 comes out for some close up big boy action. These guys are either shepherds or landowners and all carry a rifle on the bike and most days they will shoot a deer or a goat or several. See them in action and they are machines.

This is just the way it’s done and there’s no point arguing it, especially if you’re only an occasional recreational shooter. I get the concern but it’s just the way it is.

Something to consider is the culling of kangaroos in Australia. The industry standard is the .223 Remington and by law you must head shoot the animal. Chest shots are only permitted for injured animals on the run. A couple of fellas have tried to convince me that a deer doesn’t behave the same way as a kangaroo but if you put some hours in on the hill you will know that a deer isn’t a rooting pig, for example, and there’s plenty of time to shoot it in the head. Just have to be patient and wait for the right moment.

so that’s what I would do @NewbieZAR. You’ll be a good enough shot for that no problem. If it’s not for you then use another cartridge with a wider, heavier bullet.

Mmmm... Questiond, if these guys you talking about using a 223 and head shooting everything with the exception of the roar why cant they head shoot stags in the roar with the 223??
Clearly the range is even closer so if they have no problem head shooting deer grnerally then surely they could do it in the roar up close....just saying

Originally Posted by deer243

Mmmm... Questiond, if these guys you talking about using a 223 and head shooting everything with the exception of the roar why cant they head shoot stags in the roar with the 223??
Clearly the range is even closer so if they have no problem head shooting deer grnerally then surely they could do it in the roar up close....just saying

Can't speak for anyone else but personally have used a 223 for years during spring summer months and off a machine. Always go a bigger cal in the rut because head or neck shooting with a 223 doesn't help if you want to keep the capes.
Still shot a fair few stags in the rut, meat hunting non trophy areas with 223 no problem at all. Use an even smaller cal now for filling the freezer but never in a rush to do that and rarely shoot much over 50 yrds.


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great points flyblown...great indeed
varmit type projectiles come into their own for head/neck...the theory being a close miss will fragment enough to be fatal or immobilise allowing 2nd shot....stun/cut throat
the wee barnes 50 grn at under 200 yards preform very well and internal damage is similar to slow cup n core of larger cartridge...but damage is done on opposite sides eg lots on near and little on exit.
they great for chest shooting...Im not patient or exceptional shot so they give me a little leeway and confidence....
horses for courses

cheers for the feedback guys.

I geuss some clarity is needed, my main hunting rifle is a 270 out of which i shoot 150gr bergers at 2920fps

The 223 will be for when im blasting away at goats etc on the pine block, and a red or fallow steps out. And for when im hunting fallow on doc land as the 270 is a bit much for them.

I have shot animals out to 810 yards with it and can regularly hit a 200mm plate at that range with my 270.

More just thinking how they vmaxes would go if a red was to step out at say 300 - 400yards.

Cheers guys, will read up some more

now me...3-400yards and 223 is a no no .....sure some folks will say they head shoot at that range...to which I will reply how many rabbits do you miss at that range????
I would seriously look at the hornady 55grn in 50 bulk pack if you dont reload...or grab a pack to try even if you do....they would be great goat medicine and will handle bigger stuff too...but I wouldnt stretch the wee rifles barrel....they work great out to 200..after that use the mighty poohseventy,stalk closer or come back another day.

Go the "Mighty Mouse" as i love the .223!

I won't shoot deer over 250 with the .223 but most of my deer have all been bush hunting but my son who was 12 yrs at the time dropped a nice Fallow stag at 230 mtrs one day to a clean heart shot with 55 gr Sierras

I ran 55 gr V-max for a while with great results on Sika just shooting them in the chest where the chest cavity was mush and then switched to 55 gr Sierras but at least with them they mushroomed and most of the time i'd find them on the other side under the skin (chest shots)

Both types of projectiles killed well and it was a toss up of whether i stick with the vmax or Sierras and i think from memory i just went with the Sierras because i like a good lead tip.

Alot of people like to mention with .222/.223 to head/neck shoot deer where as with the sika and fallow i just shot them in the chest and down they'd go every single time but with reds and lets face it their a bigger bodied animal so with them you need to place the shot in the neck though I have heard of guys using barnes who just shoot the boiler room.

For what your wanting to do which is shooting goats/fallow and the ocassional red then get 55 / 63 / 65 gr Sierras or 55 gr Hornady's which are cheap but have also been very effective on Goats / Fallow for me.

Hot barrels

Originally Posted by Seventenths

Go the "Mighty Mouse" as i love the .223!

I won't shoot deer over 250 with the .223 but most of my deer have all been bush hunting but my son who was 12 yrs at the time dropped a nice Fallow stag at 230 mtrs one day to a clean heart shot with 55 gr Sierras

I ran 55 gr V-max for a while with great results on Sika just shooting them in the chest where the chest cavity was mush and then switched to 55 gr Sierras but at least with them they mushroomed and most of the time i'd find them on the other side under the skin (chest shots)

Both types of projectiles killed well and it was a toss up of whether i stick with the vmax or Sierras and i think from memory i just went with the Sierras because i like a good lead tip.

Alot of people like to mention with .222/.223 to head/neck shoot deer where as with the sika and fallow i just shot them in the chest and down they'd go every single time but with reds and lets face it their a bigger bodied animal so with them you need to place the shot in the neck though I have heard of guys using barnes who just shoot the boiler room.

For what your wanting to do which is shooting goats/fallow and the ocassional red then get 55 / 63 / 65 gr Sierras or 55 gr Hornady's which are cheap but have also been very effective on Goats / Fallow for me.

Hot barrels

Here we have they key issue with .223.
Ive seen seventenths shoot on paper and he is a phenomenal shot.
“Competent” and “good” dont even start to describe it.
It sounds as if he can also shoot enough animals that he can let them walk any time.
The later posts here are mostly from older forum members and past masters.
This is not a calibre for the beginner or youth.

Basics have been covered on this thread already but just thought I would reiterate the fact that a .223 for red deer is not really a 300 to 400 yard cartridge. Virtually no energy at that range and the margin of error for a .223 is very little as it is. Throw in a slight breeze or small movement on the animals part as you pull the trigger and you can say goodbye to it.
I use a .223 a lot and have started steering clear of the pills that are lighter than 55gr, other than Barnes which punches well above it's weight.
As others have mentioned above, the basic Hornady and Sierra soft points are cheap and do the job.
Shot placement is key.

I've used both a .22-250 and a .223 a fair amount on fallow and a little on reds. Shot two fallow with 50gr z/v max first one was a neck shot and she fell over straight away. Second one didn't go as well, was a yearling spiker and I aimed at the neck again. He appeared to stumble at the shot however ran of with the rest of the mob. Searching revealed no sign of a hit or deer. About 6 weeks later I shot a yearling spiker in the same place, this time with a 55gr soft point in the chest. When I boned him out there was some bruising/ wounding on its neck, can't be sure it's the same animal but was enough to make me avoid the varmint projectiles for deer.
.223 will work fine just have to realise its limits better than I did that day.

Considering people shoot elk, beer, deer etc with bows I reckon a 223 with the right pill in the right range is just fine for a deer..