Thread: 223 on deer

Originally Posted by doinit

At what point in time was that Micky Duck? .222,308 and .270 were the main flavours and on the odd occasion certain guys were supplied .243. that list was a definite on the Thar blocks. Although the majority of hunters on the Thar including myself carried .222's. I'm talking mid 60's-late 70's.

.222 was probably the main flavour top of south island late 70's to '87? when NZFS was abolished. 223 mainly with DOC shooters now apart from some contractors who were using 22 magnums and heading dogs.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings All,
At one point NZFS adopted .270 Win as their standard animal control cartridge, mid 1970's I think. CAC made head stamped ammo for them. This was all written up in the hunting mags at the time. I found two discarded NZFS head stamped cases on the range, both expanded by egregious over loads. Whether these were factory or hand loads I don't know. Either is possible knowing CAC's later problems.
Regards Grandpamac.

Gidday there Grandpamac, Yeah the .270 was supplied along with .308 at that time but .222 was used rather than the bigger calibers although one of my bosses grabbed a .270 that was on offer at the time and he was not culling,rather an office type.
The Forest Service offered the Thar hunters in my area brand new CF2,s in .270. Those things were far too heavy and bloody noisey plus the weight of ammo, hence the .222's being far more popular. When I worked in the Marlborough district They offered new Sako vixens in .222. Cullers moved around a lot from one district to another and at the end of the day the .222 was still very popular regardless of animal size.
cheers

My apologies NewbieZAR for getting side tracked on certain subjects I find my bleating can sort of keep on keeping on eh.

47gr of nicely mushroomed 80gr ELDM recovered from under the offside skin of a red after penetrating shoulder, spine, lungs and opposite ribs at 250 V0 2800fps.

Originally Posted by doinit

My apologies NewbieZAR for getting side tracked on certain subjects I find my bleating can sort of keep on keeping on eh.

you bleat away old chap...youve done the hard yards and shot more animals than most of us will ever get sights on....the years of REAL experience can not be discounted....you KNOW and us younger folk just think we know.
you will have forgotton more than a lot of us will ever learn.

.223 neck shot couple of nights ago (graphic).

85 yards. 77 grn Sierra @ 2900 fps.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

This is one of those subjects that gets people a bit uppity.

You have to look at the different classes of shooting to get your head around what best practice is with a .224 cal bullet. Obviously the term “best practice” invites all sorts of criticism depending on your own definition of “best” is.

You’ll always hear that it is “unethical” to shoot deer with a .223 when obviously there are numerous “better” choices. But the simple fact is there are lots of professionals who shoot deer with a .223. Ground-based shooters and helicopter shooters, typically with a 62 or 64 grain bullet. I can’t speak for all of them but the ground-based professionals I’ve come across all head shoot deer. I too shoot dozens of deer every year with my .223 1:12” with the 50gr Z-Max. Head shots only. The fellas I hang with all shoot .223, all head shoot, the only exception is the Roar when the 308 or 270 comes out for some close up big boy action. These guys are either shepherds or landowners and all carry a rifle on the bike and most days they will shoot a deer or a goat or several. See them in action and they are machines.

This is just the way it’s done and there’s no point arguing it, especially if you’re only an occasional recreational shooter. I get the concern but it’s just the way it is.

Something to consider is the culling of kangaroos in Australia. The industry standard is the .223 Remington and by law you must head shoot the animal. Chest shots are only permitted for injured animals on the run. A couple of fellas have tried to convince me that a deer doesn’t behave the same way as a kangaroo but if you put some hours in on the hill you will know that a deer isn’t a rooting pig, for example, and there’s plenty of time to shoot it in the head. Just have to be patient and wait for the right moment.

so that’s what I would do @NewbieZAR. You’ll be a good enough shot for that no problem. If it’s not for you then use another cartridge with a wider, heavier bullet.

Mmmm... Questiond, if these guys you talking about using a 223 and head shooting everything with the exception of the roar why cant they head shoot stags in the roar with the 223??
Clearly the range is even closer so if they have no problem head shooting deer grnerally then surely they could do it in the roar up close....just saying

Originally Posted by Finnwolf

Hmmm.. @grandpamac.’’CAC problems’?
When did they occur and what were they?

I used to religiously use CAC 180 hollow-points in my Finnwolf with no issues ever.

I can't comment on the high powered CAC ammo but when I started on the Pest Destruction Board in the late 70's the old Rabbit Board 12 g shotgun ammo was alright.
The 22 ammo both sub and super was shocking. Subs would quite often go off like a super which was bad news especially when we were on der farms and needed to be as quite as possible so as not to Spook the animals. Super sonic ammo sometimes went off like a 22 mag or other times like a sub. One night me mate had one that barely made a noise and on inspection found the bullet stuck in the barrel, luckly he checked before firing the next round. Back then we used to get the CAC in a plain white box for subs and supers were marked SR5, interesting times. Sorry got a bit side tracked From 223 on deer thread.

Originally Posted by deer243

Mmmm... Questiond, if these guys you talking about using a 223 and head shooting everything with the exception of the roar why cant they head shoot stags in the roar with the 223??
Clearly the range is even closer so if they have no problem head shooting deer grnerally then surely they could do it in the roar up close....just saying

Can't speak for anyone else but personally have used a 223 for years during spring summer months and off a machine. Always go a bigger cal in the rut because head or neck shooting with a 223 doesn't help if you want to keep the capes.
Still shot a fair few stags in the rut, meat hunting non trophy areas with 223 no problem at all. Use an even smaller cal now for filling the freezer but never in a rush to do that and rarely shoot much over 50 yrds.


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also...if the stag of a lifetime is departing and the only shot on offer is fair up his arse...well the 308 or mighty poohseventy will anchor him for finishing but .223 as good as it is will struggle.
larger margin for error with a rushed shot.....the .224 centrefires ARENT for rushed shots....

I used a 1/8 twist 223 on deer pretty regularly for 9 years, generally with controlled expansion monolithics. I had a couple of heavier calibers at the time but I normally chose the 223, as I’m a meat hunter more than anything. I purchased it as a bit of an all rounder for varminting and meat hunting (fallow and smaller reds at shorter ranges). It filled that role pretty well but I don’t think the 223 is a great choice as a stand alone deer rifle. If a nice fat red spiker wanders out onto a clearing 250yd away, right on dusk and there’s no opportunity to get closer, I want a caliber that will reliably flatten that animal with a shoulder shot. So that means a 6mm minimum. Do yourself a favour and get a 243 instead

Originally Posted by 7.62

If a nice fat red spiker wanders out onto a clearing 250yd away, right on dusk and there’s no opportunity to get closer, I want a caliber that will reliably flatten that animal with a shoulder shot. So that means a 6mm minimum. Do yourself a favour and get a 243 instead

I agree, slightly, If I only could have one rifle it would be a 6.5mm Fact is you can run 100gr pills easy as which will do everything a .243 will do but you can run 147s to shoot shit wayyyy out there. Plus how many people do you know that want to run heavy .243 rounds????

IMO the 6.5 (.260) is what the .243 should have been.

With these neck shots and the .223 the margin for error can be pretty slim.
This was the other night too. You can see it was hit a bit high at 100 yards. Sighted in for 200 and I didn't allow for the plus 1.5". Could have been a miss - as it was it wasn't an instant kill. I still rate the .223 though.

Are you going away from the coppers Bruce, for a while you said they were the bees knees?

Originally Posted by nor-west

Are you going away from the coppers Bruce, for a while you said they were the bees knees?

@nor-west Im just a bullet slut I'm not using the Barnes at the moment because I need a duel load for wallaby and deer from the same rifle without too much mucking about. Barnes are too spendy for wallaby.