Thread: 223 on deer

Hi NoMis,good practice for you is to shoot a 100 or so rabbits at 200yds first.Then youl have no problem shoot deer in the right place.

Originally Posted by Trout

Hi NoMis,good practice for you is to shoot a 100 or so rabbits at 200yds first.Then youl have no problem shoot deer in the right place.

I'd be happy to do that, as I'm partial to rabbit meat, but living in a major urban environment and not having many farming connections, such a possibility is slim. Still, I'm off the range today, so let's see what that brings...

I find it amusing that this thread is 84 pages of dead deer shot with the .223. Yet every 8-10 pages we have to have an opinion piece quoting a local expert to the contrary. The .223 is my go to now. Why ? It’s accurate, quiet and deadly. The last 20 odd deer we’ve shot have been killed cleanly at various ranges. That’s fact and experience- not ballistic theories.

Both when shooting a .223 at an animal and considering Mr Fosters' writings you need to take a big breath. It will ensure accuracy.

Well, seeing as how the knives are out, I'll add that Mr Foster has yet to be convinced that the 6.5mm is up to cleanly killing red deer. But to be fair, the useful stuff he has done remains useful, the rest we are free to ignore.

I'm assuming the author is referring to the effectiveness of the 223 at long range on animals?

Because, for the life of me, I can't figure out how all the reds I've shot this year have died given I'm using a 223 in 55g Sako Gamehead SP? All were shot up close in the bush (less 40 yards) have all died within 1-10m, apart from one at a canter that we found 40m away. Chest shots with large exit wounds and broken limbs on the other side, heat shots, neck shots and one shot a bit far back in the rib cage Again, they are no less dead than deer I've shot with the 7mm08 up close.

Well It looks like Nathan Foster might have a bit of history with some forum members. I know nothing about that but I do enjoy his videos and books. I can't say I agree with all his findings and assertions but the amount of research he has done into terminal ballistics is impressive. I was surprised to see that in his latest book he does actually agree that the .223 can be an effective larger game cartridge i.e. used on deer. The proviso as always is the correct bullet choice. I think the smaller and more marginal the chosen cartridge becomes for the intended target, the more important bullet selection becomes.`
Not sure where @Flyblown get the assertion that the 6.5 caliber is not adequate for deer sized game. The stuff I have read recently from Nathan Foster does not give this assertion. Maybe some of his older writing before the modern VLD type projectiles came along, and of course the invincible 6.5 Creedmoor.
Not trying to defend him, I have never met the man but I do think his knowledge on terminal ballistics is impressive.

Originally Posted by zeropak

Well It looks like Nathan Foster might have a bit of history with some forum members. I know nothing about that but I do enjoy his videos and books. I can't say I agree with all his findings and assertions but the amount of research he has done into terminal ballistics is impressive. I was surprised to see that in his latest book he does actually agree that the .223 can be an effective larger game cartridge i.e. used on deer. The proviso as always is the correct bullet choice. I think the smaller and more marginal the chosen cartridge becomes for the intended target, the more important bullet selection becomes.`
Not sure where @Flyblown get the assertion that the 6.5 caliber is not adequate for deer sized game. The stuff I have read recently from Nathan Foster does not give this assertion. Maybe some of his older writing before the modern VLD type projectiles came along, and of course the invincible 6.5 Creedmoor.
Not trying to defend him, I have never met the man but I do think his knowledge on terminal ballistics is impressive.

I may be somewhat cynical. He puts out some interesting information but he is a great user of the cut and paste feature of the internet.

ACTUALLY if you read what is said...he really rates it,the 6.5x55mm using partitions BUT like doing same in .270w you can get cocky and then have balls up when aim is off LOL....
HORSES FOR COURSES
if you get in close enough and aim well enough you can kill an elephant with a .22 short...its been done its all relative.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

ACTUALLY if you read what is said...he really rates it,the 6.5x55mm using partitions BUT like doing same in .270w you can get cocky and then have balls up when aim is off LOL....
HORSES FOR COURSES
if you get in close enough and aim well enough you can kill an elephant with a .22 short...its been done its all relative.

How many pacaderms have you killed? Thought you only used 50gr TTSX. You down sizing. LOL.

the story goes...native poacher was caught..when he told rangers how he killed jumbo,he wasnt believed,so he demonstrated how...same way they used to use the elephant bow..lay on ground in/under path and shoot up into armpit from below,the heart is very close to surface and has little protection...
50 grn ttsx is my round of choice..but have also killed fallow with 55grn sierra sp and 52grn speer hp and a sierra 63grn sp,the blunt ones last 2 were from the wee .222
shot red spiker with the hornady bulk 55grn..very impressed BUT super calm conditions,calm deer and calm shooter,range was about 100 yards and will back myself to pluck head off bunny at that range with my .223.

The amount of Deer on the hook in this thread just speaks volumes.

To change subjects slightly.

Who has had accuracy success with the 80 gn eldm’s ?
My Tikka will shoot them OK , but the 77 TMK’s just absolutely hammer into a tight cluster .
The eldm’s are accurate enough to hunt with , but the confidence that the TMK’s grouping ability inspires gives some real confidence.

Originally Posted by Ground Control

The amount of Deer on the hook in this thread just speaks volumes.

To change subjects slightly.

Who has had accuracy success with the 80 gn eldm’s ?
My Tikka will shoot them OK , but the 77 TMK’s just absolutely hammer into a tight cluster .
The eldm’s are accurate enough to hunt with , but the confidence that the TMK’s grouping ability inspires gives some real confidence.

80 eldm - @gimp using 2208

Originally Posted by Ground Control

The amount of Deer on the hook in this thread just speaks volumes.

To change subjects slightly.

Who has had accuracy success with the 80 gn eldm’s ?
My Tikka will shoot them OK , but the 77 TMK’s just absolutely hammer into a tight cluster .
The eldm’s are accurate enough to hunt with , but the confidence that the TMK’s grouping ability inspires gives some real confidence.

Same with my Tikka it shoots them ok but 77tmk and 80grn Targex through same hole.


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He ought to update his website - it still says the 80 is unreliable