Thread: 223 on deer

Originally Posted by csmiffy

@Tahr they obviously go very well.
Compared to the run of the mill Barnes what do they do diggerently?

@csmiffy Rather than mushroom they shed their petals which creates wider damage and churn and the shank rips on through.

In this pic you can see that it demolished the heart but also there is petal damage in the lungs.

Originally Posted by Tahr

https://tractoptics.com/riflescopes/...ng-rifle-scope

There are some rotten bugs around at the moment. Whats your rifle?

Gday,

Its a Howa on an elude chassis. Carbon barrel.

Havent had time to muck around with it too much yet. No optics on it yet so still working on that.

Hopefully it will be a dinger once i get it up and running.

@Tahr What are your initial impressions on terminal performance of the Hammers vs TMK?

Originally Posted by Hunty1

@Tahr What are your initial impressions on terminal performance of the Hammers vs TMK?

TMK you get a lot more blood shot and ruined meat. Both kill really well. I think on bigger animals the enhanced penetration is a plus for the hammers. Hammers are expensive, but so are TMK's. For me its hard to go past Targex 80 grain.

I've recently returned from a four-day excursion in the Kaimanawa Forest hunting the elusive Sika. That was my fourth foray on conservation estate land, and, like the others, my hiking high and low was fruitless, not only in terms of not shooting a deer, but in not even sighting one! I did, however, hear one whistle, which I suppose means I was close to encountering the beast. Anyway, that's not why I'm adding to this already generous 223 thread. I'm relatively new to hunting (shot my first fallow five years ago on private land with a Shultz & Larsen 223 and several others since with the same rifle), and allowed myself to be persuaded that such a calibre was unsuitable for the type of bush hunting we were going to engage with. So, I took my newly-acquired second-hand Mauser M12 chambered in 6.5x55. It's a heavier rifle and I did wonder whether that calibre's ability to be less subject to deflection was worth the physical effort. Another consideration, I was also informed that any Sika I might hit with that calibre would not move as far away as one shot with my trusty 64gr Winchester Deer Season. Anyway, my question: who would take the 6.5x55 over the 223 when hunting Sika in that environment and why?

Originally Posted by NoMis

I've recently returned from a four-day excursion in the Kaimanawa Forest hunting the elusive Sika. That was my fourth foray on conservation estate land, and, like the others, my hiking high and low was fruitless, not only in terms of not shooting a deer, but in not even sighting one! I did, however, hear one whistle, which I suppose means I was close to encountering the beast. Anyway, that's not why I'm adding to this already generous 223 thread. I'm relatively new to hunting (shot my first fallow five years ago on private land with a Shultz & Larsen 223 and several others since with the same rifle), and allowed myself to be persuaded that such a calibre was unsuitable for the type of bush hunting we were going to engage with. So, I took my newly-acquired second-hand Mauser M12 chambered in 6.5x55. It's a heavier rifle and I did wonder whether that calibre's ability to be less subject to deflection was worth the physical effort. Another consideration, I was also informed that any Sika I might hit with that calibre would not move as far away as one shot with my trusty 64gr Winchester Deer Season. Anyway, my question: who would take the 6.5x55 over the 223 when hunting Sika in that environment and why?

Exactly that I would think the 223 would deflect in bush rather easy. And also in sika country you might end up seeing a deer 3 400 yards away and definitely wouldn't want to try with a 223 . I carry a 300 blk for bush hunting sika but once I shot at a stag and I was fairly confident of the shot but I wonder if they would deflect also . And it has had me wanting to go back to my old trusty bush 18 inch 300wsm. Nothing stops that . I was once up on top of the urchin looking at a red hind with my 300 blk in my hand and all I could think was if only I had my wsm . I wouldn't bother trying with 223 or 300blk at that range .

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Originally Posted by Phill243

Exactly that I would think the 223 would deflect in bush rather easy. And also in sika country you might end up seeing a deer 3 400 yards away and definitely wouldn't want to try with a 223 . I carry a 300 blk for bush hunting sika but once I shot at a stag and I was fairly confident of the shot but I wonder if they would deflect also . And it has had me wanting to go back to my old trusty bush 18 inch 300wsm. Nothing stops that . I was once up on top of the urchin looking at a red hind with my 300 blk in my hand and all I could think was if only I had my wsm . I wouldn't bother trying with 223 or 300blk at that range .

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OK, I hear that - but the deer I might've seen in that environment would've been, at most, I reckon, 60 or so metres away, perhaps considerably less.

Originally Posted by NoMis

I've recently returned from a four-day excursion in the Kaimanawa Forest hunting the elusive Sika. That was my fourth foray on conservation estate land, and, like the others, my hiking high and low was fruitless, not only in terms of not shooting a deer, but in not even sighting one! I did, however, hear one whistle, which I suppose means I was close to encountering the beast. Anyway, that's not why I'm adding to this already generous 223 thread. I'm relatively new to hunting (shot my first fallow five years ago on private land with a Shultz & Larsen 223 and several others since with the same rifle), and allowed myself to be persuaded that such a calibre was unsuitable for the type of bush hunting we were going to engage with. So, I took my newly-acquired second-hand Mauser M12 chambered in 6.5x55. It's a heavier rifle and I did wonder whether that calibre's ability to be less subject to deflection was worth the physical effort. Another consideration, I was also informed that any Sika I might hit with that calibre would not move as far away as one shot with my trusty 64gr Winchester Deer Season. Anyway, my question: who would take the 6.5x55 over the 223 when hunting Sika in that environment and why?

I personally believe you would see bugger all difference between the two. An unsuitable bullet in the 6.5 could even result in a longer trailing job than the .223 with the right bullet. This thread is up to 82 pages of evidence that shows that the .223 is definitely up to the job, it just takes a mindset of accepting the data, and dismissing the ‘emotional’ non data driven statements about cartridge choice.

But at the end of the day, take whichever one you are most accurate with. Accuracy equals confidence, and confidence will keep any negative thoughts in check. If you’ve shot fallow with the .223, then a sika is no different. It’s still just flesh and bone….

Originally Posted by NoMis

OK, I hear that - but the deer I might've seen in that environment would've been, at most, I reckon, 60 or so metres away, perhaps considerably less.

60 meters, peice of piss with a 223

I flattened a fallow stag last week @ 230m with 53gr TSX Barnes. Never moved. The petals we shedded but the main projectile remained intact. My mate up the coast shot a red stag with 55gr TSX Barnes but it had perfect petal peel back. Both powered by BM2. My mate says his Barnes are not exiting but perfect expansion and always lodged on inside skin on other side. These are not runty Kaweka deer but fat coast pine block brutes.

Any empirical evidence that exists tends to show that ALL high velocity light calibre rifle bullets deflect a great deal if you hit a bit of shrubbery, a 6.5 is not measurably better than a .223 - you'll miss by miles with either if you hit a twig that isn't immediately against your deer

Originally Posted by NoMis

I've recently returned from a four-day excursion in the Kaimanawa Forest hunting the elusive Sika. That was my fourth foray on conservation estate land, and, like the others, my hiking high and low was fruitless, not only in terms of not shooting a deer, but in not even sighting one! I did, however, hear one whistle, which I suppose means I was close to encountering the beast. Anyway, that's not why I'm adding to this already generous 223 thread. I'm relatively new to hunting (shot my first fallow five years ago on private land with a Shultz & Larsen 223 and several others since with the same rifle), and allowed myself to be persuaded that such a calibre was unsuitable for the type of bush hunting we were going to engage with. So, I took my newly-acquired second-hand Mauser M12 chambered in 6.5x55. It's a heavier rifle and I did wonder whether that calibre's ability to be less subject to deflection was worth the physical effort. Another consideration, I was also informed that any Sika I might hit with that calibre would not move as far away as one shot with my trusty 64gr Winchester Deer Season. Anyway, my question: who would take the 6.5x55 over the 223 when hunting Sika in that environment and why?

None of the Sika or Red Deer I've shot with my 223 are any less dead than when I used my 7mm08. Shot placement.

That last comment sums it up.shot placement.i will buck trend somewhat by adding. If shot isn't spot on.the larger/heavier projectile SHOULD slow animal down more than lighter one. A shot fair up the arse canal on good stag....yeah the 6.5 all day long. The shot at moving animal...same choice for same reason. I like to smash the front wheels. The wee 222/223 using a Barnes will do it. But the 270 does it more..double edged sword.more ruined meat but an anchored animal. Use heavy .223 projectile and the difference will be much less.

Ye they can't go ne where with front diff blowen.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

That last comment sums it up.shot placement.i will buck trend somewhat by adding. If shot isn't spot on.the larger/heavier projectile SHOULD slow animal down more than lighter one. A shot fair up the arse canal on good stag....yeah the 6.5 all day long. The shot at moving animal...same choice for same reason. I like to smash the front wheels. The wee 222/223 using a Barnes will do it. But the 270 does it more..double edged sword.more ruined meat but an anchored animal. Use heavy .223 projectile and the difference will be much less.

Appreciate the nuance you bring, MD. I typically use a Winchester 64g round but have also had tight groupings with the Hornady 75g Black. Would you say that the 64g is a heavy projectile?