Thread: 45/70 Subsonic

New project is a Stirling Single Shot shotgun action - if you remember the ones with the pin hinge that fold in half. Anyway it has a 458 cal barrel tube on it now with a 1 in 16 twist. it is chambered in a shortened version of 45/70. So with a folding stock, should fit into a 40cm bag when trout fishing as a backup to the landing net. Currently modifying it to external hammer with manual cocking.
Have you looked at Outlaw State Projectiles ?.
Reason for going to the 45 is that while the 44 mag I have now flattens pigs goats and fallow as long as they are hit in exactly the right spot it isn't quite enough for a heavy red stag. Shot a bison heifer ( used to farm them )smack in the forehead at 70 metres and it was like slow motion, with a delay of one second before anything happened, then plonk over.
I don't know how the 300blkts etc really go with their low energy numbers, but out of all choices the 45/70 is probably the best.

i know the sterling single barrel shotguns very well . . . owned one for many years but sadly sold off in a rash moment.
pictures of your project with ammo specs etc would be appreciated when it is done, sounds very interesting.
and look forward to your observations when the .45 is used in anger.

cheers for the mention of Outlaw State Projectiles . . . dont know them, they look effective and nodoubt expensive, always a problem with high tech jobs.

bullet on the right ( 340grns ) is the one i have been paper patching . . . results so far average 1.5 inches at 50 yards, vel 1055fps average, POI is 2 mils higher than the usual 405grn. bullet ( centre ) suppressor was checked between shots & found to be clean

next step is to find the time to cast some more bullets, then move the target out in steps to get more data . . . then shoot some animals.
theyre a little lighter than than the 405s and they have a wider flatpoint ( meplat ) so performance will a little different, how much i am keen to see.

bullet on the left is 300grns

Them's sure big Metplats Rossi, Elmer Keith will be smiling down at you with joy

managed a fast and loose session today to roughly check f i am good to go hunting with this load / settings

the target squares are 1 inch . . . full value breeze running 5mph
smacked the fry pan twice to Finnish . . all good.

first 2 of 8 shot . . 75-90 yards






all good shots . . performance was good, need some more shooting to see if there is any advantage over the 405s

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Them's sure big Metplats Rossi, Elmer Keith will be smiling down at you with joy

just thinking out loud here Moa . . . if i set 405grns as an upper limit for bullet weight needed to do the job and increase the width of the meplat to the max and still get reliable feeding in the lever action using paper patched bullets,

like these designs




would Elmer approve . . .. i think so

I have been considering my answer before putting anything to print here rossi. For a start Elmer would approve of those Metplats. For us to have a definitive answer I think we need to go 'Cap in Hand' to Bill 999 on the first page of this thread and get some of his 500grainer's and Hollowpoint them unless he has some he's prepared earlier and is just waiting for us to ask / kneel / beg / prostrate ourselves before him etc. (which I am willing to do if required) for a comparative test.
What I have noticed with my 44 and the 300grn XTP is that if I shoot a hare at any range out to 120metres there is a loud Wohck sound as the poor creature is dramatically flattened and lays without a single twitch or movement. Often in a rigid tense unrelaxed stricken pose in death. But the same projectile on a pig can do very little. For example two wild pigs shot in the neck just behind the head with the bullet passing just above the spine ran off with heads hanging down and unable to lift them because the muscles and ligaments had been cut. One needing shot again and the other a knife behind the front leg.
I thought 'bugger this' I'll drill the Hollowpoints out a bit more with a drill bit in the case trimmer, but what horrible dry hard- to- cut stuff it is. Not what I expected for a low velocity pistol bullet. The bullets don't mushroom or even toadstool more like a 'shaggy ink cap' than a Porcini.
So for a start we need to know what the recipe is for the lead in Winchesters wonderful 22 subsonics, procure some 450 grain HP's in that lead and compare them to your 'Elmers Delights'. Looking at the Outlaw State HP's they have mushroomed really well, with a much bigger frontal area than a big metplat.

good on ya Moa . . . i will give this some thought

R.

You could buy a box of those 22 Winchester , remove the projectiles from the cases, melt them and cast a few big bullets and test the hardness? At 42 grains you need ten to make one of your big pill

Not at all a meritless idea Friwi, in fact quite obvious but something that had never occurred to my very average powered brain !! Thankyou
Earlier today (it was raining) I googled up some interesting info about shockwaves and in particular 'Bow shock' as in 'Bow wave' (as in boat) not to be confused with Robin Hood. It would appear that the large Metplat creates a wide shock-wave and this is what causes the effect on the target not a pushing of material ahead of it. There was some ambiguity in the explanation regarding subsonic as opposed to supersonic shock waves, something that we probably need Sheldon Cooper to explain.

interesring Moa . . . i was thinking about this very concept yesterday . .. the meplat is similar in action as when you push the flat of your hand away from you in water.

plus . . . the sharp edge disrupts / tears tissue instead of allowing it to slide past . . . sounds good anyway

just woke up thinking about part of the answer to your ealier post . . . this is interesting

R.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Attachment 87478Attachment 87479

Bit of work to do there by the looks of it.
That rifle looks a bit "modified" whats the alkathene jointer nut and poly tape do, hold the foreend or something more sinister like allow the fittting of a grenade launcher?.

Well all my advanced secrets exposed ! The tape enhances accuracy by holding the focus on the scope in the same place and the plumbing fitting is the end result of a great deal of experimentation so no scoffing from anyone please. In unmodified original form the fore-stock is held on by a silly pin brazed to the barrel. The fore-stock holds the barrel onto the action. I shortened the fore-stock and attached the plumbing fitting with casting resin which also fills out the hollow in the short piece of f stock left. This let me have the maximus sit back as far as possible and also allows the rifle to be quickly assembled or disassembled depending on the urgency of the situation prevailing at the time. One last secret is that the but-plate is modified and held on with a spring allowing a stash of ammo to be kept inside the stock for emergencies like when a Mob is encountered.