Thread: Alpine Helicopters culling tahr

Cant be surely. Dont think anyone hurt, take off incident.

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Like @R93 said, My guess would be they are counting numbers. Especially how @Ryan said they ignored deer that where there.

So @Ryan_Songhurst, did you see them shoot a tahr or at a tahr?

Called in at HeliServices.NZ when in Haast the other day and asked about the the landsborough tahr situation.
Ol mate said there certainly were a lot shot in there but he's done a fair few flights up there around Xmas said there were good mobs up there still.
No money in venison.
James hasn't, apparently, bothered this season cause the veni schedule is shithouse.
He did say Wallace was in the Haast area shooting for velvet.


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Originally Posted by Reindeer

Called in at HeliServices.NZ when in Haast the other day and asked about the the landsborough tahr situation.
Ol mate said there certainly were a lot shot in there but he's done a fair few flights up there around Xmas said there were good mobs up there still.
No money in venison.
James hasn't, apparently, bothered this season cause the veni schedule is shithouse.
He did say Wallace was in the Haast area shooting for velvet.


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Heli shooting for velvet is a prime example of the issues around management of WARO. It delivers almost zero conservation gains but the very few doing it impact heavily on the large number of owners (us) and their enjoyment of their/ our land. In my opinion it is a terrible management decision and regime when it happens. There is no doubt that reccy hunters who target stags only are in the same boat environmentally but people should have the right to do that as long as they support culls or commercial take of females to support that type of culture and regime. I really really would like to see WARO better managed to support the operators and a sustained harvest that works to agreed densities and sex ratios that are environmentally sustainable for long term gains and that fit in with a quality hunting experience for all. It can be done I am sure. I am also quite comfortable with poor stags and a pre agreed (based on science) percentage of young stags being taken commercially or otherwise for the long term health and betterment of the herd. Fact is that in some remote areas and even not so remote, the helicopter is our best tool and responsible operators our best allies. I know not all are trophy hunters but managing in this way also ensures a healthy population of hinds and others that are good for meat too. Just read an article in the States where ranchers are taking responsibility for removing an agreed quota of whitetail does each year as determined by the game management services. The ranchers are straight away noticing a dynamic rut with greater competition for does and bucks creating a better hunting experience. Just as Cam Speedy said in a recent article.

and while Im up here on high horse,may as well say it...shooting stags pre rut for trophy value is just plain dumb...always was frowned upon as poor sportsmanship ,still applies. the main hunting magazines printing stories about it is dumb...and in case of NZ Hunter is just plain Lunacy ,it goes against the ethics they promote on TV show to the extreme....try to select older mature male who has passed on genetics
I have no issue with person shooting animal for meat...what ever it is...HOPEFULLY if has big rack of velvet and looks to have trophy potential it will be left to grow out...if not,so be it.....PERSONAL CHOICE.
I dont chase stags a lot during roar as dont like crowds...but will hope to run into stags afterwards,or late in roar after mad rush has finished.

Cams been saying it for years....just no one listened....lots of males n few females makes for exciting rut hunting and low population growth WIN-WIN
velvet recovery shooting = still high population growth and less stags.....less rut activity LOOSE-LOOSE cause its hard to motivate folks to go chase stags in area thats been bombed up for the high value males...

It’s been publicised that the there is going to be a big audit done on no.s of animals. There is no culling going on.

Unless there is a huge jump in shot velvet price I havent heard of, I dont know how you could even justify an R22 shooting stags for velvet alone.

Game management likely will never work in Nz. Too many different interests with different ideas.

Helicopters hunting velvet only, is a bit weird. I was in the game for a long time and do not recall it happening. Times have changed however.

But you can't really moan about it when 95% of recreational hunters don't give a flying fuck about management or trophy potential. 99% wouldn't know how to assess a potential trophy deer when in its first couple years. The majority also wouldn't give a fuck and just shoot anyway so they have a kill. Or tney have the attitude if I don't shoot it now, someone else will.

Meat hunters using thermals, spotlights or just killing trophy stags in early velvet is just plain selfish and incompetent imo. I despise it and see it all the time here on the coast. If your after just meat why not just wait for a more suitable animal.

There is a lot of education and attitude change needed at the recreational level before any form of successful management can happen in NZ imo.





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Originally Posted by R93

But you can't really moan about it when 95% of recreational hunters don't give a flying fuck about management or trophy potential. 99% wouldn't know how to assess a potential trophy deer when in its first couple years. The majority also wouldn't give a fuck and just shoot anyway so they have a kill. Or tney have the attitude if I don't shoot it now, someone else will.

Meat hunters using thermals, spotlights or just killing trophy stags in early velvet is just plain selfish and incompetent imo. I despise it and see it all the time here on the coast. If your after just meat why not just wait for a more suitable animal.

There is a lot of education and attitude change needed at the recreational level before any form of successful management can happen in NZ imo.





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I would not know where to start assessing a potential trophy but then I am not trophy hunter. I have no issue with trophy hunting as if if that floats your boat go for it, its just not my thing.
Eating .............now thats my thing so I have no issue myself tipping over pretty much anything using any method (excepting hinds when they have fawns at foot) solely based on how much meat I can recover.
For example if I could either
a) shoot a hind/yearling a long way from my transport and only recover 1/2 the usable meat and leave the rest on the hill
or
b) a stag (a goodie or otherwise) even in velvet where the whole animal could be recovered and utilised with no waste
then for me its a no brainer the stag would be all over rover.
I have let animals go as I simply don't think I can recover enough meat from where they are at
Thermal, Spotlights etc all have their uses too.

Left over dog bones


For those that say its not sporting I would say a sport is a contest between 2 equal parties or teams with same equipment used by both sides.

Originally Posted by mikee

I would not know where to start assessing a potential trophy but then I am not trophy hunter. I have no issue with trophy hunting as if if that floats your boat go for it, its just not my thing.
Eating .............now thats my thing so I have no issue myself tipping over pretty much anything using any method (excepting hinds when they have fawns at foot) solely based on how much meat I can recover.
For example if I could either
a) shoot a hind/yearling a long way from my transport and only recover 1/2 the usable meat and leave the rest on the hill
or
b) a stag (a goodie or otherwise) even in velvet where the whole animal could be recovered and utilised with no waste
then for me its a no brainer the stag would be all over rover.
I have let animals go as I simply don't think I can recover enough meat from where they are at
Thermal, Spotlights etc all have their uses too.

Left over dog bones
Attachment 158242

For those that say its not sporting I would say a sport is a contest between 2 equal parties or teams with same equipment used by both sides.

Not that there is anything wrong with what your reasons are for taking animals but you just highlighted why any form of game or trophy management will never work in NZ.

I am also fully aware that thermals and spotlights have their uses.
Its the complete fuck wits that use them on public land I have issues with.


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Originally Posted by R93

I am also fully aware that thermals and spotlights have their uses.
Its the complete fuck wits that use them on public land I have issues with

100% And no bullshit its happening all the time. In the last year I have personally encountered this exact thing on multiple occasions.

Often they are even very open about what they are doing. Doc arnt policing it, nobody is.

If you try and stop them you'll just most likely end up getting a punch..And thus it continues


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Originally Posted by mikee

I would not know where to start assessing a potential trophy but then I am not trophy hunter. I have no issue with trophy hunting as if if that floats your boat go for it, its just not my thing.
Eating .............now thats my thing so I have no issue myself tipping over pretty much anything using any method (excepting hinds when they have fawns at foot) solely based on how much meat I can recover.
For example if I could either
a) shoot a hind/yearling a long way from my transport and only recover 1/2 the usable meat and leave the rest on the hill
or
b) a stag (a goodie or otherwise) even in velvet where the whole animal could be recovered and utilised with no waste
then for me its a no brainer the stag would be all over rover.
I have let animals go as I simply don't think I can recover enough meat from where they are at
Thermal, Spotlights etc all have their uses too.

Left over dog bones
Attachment 158242

For those that say its not sporting I would say a sport is a contest between 2 equal parties or teams with same equipment used by both sides.

Wow you got Piranhas ,up your way.

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Originally Posted by mikee

I would not know where to start assessing a potential trophy but then I am not trophy hunter. I have no issue with trophy hunting as if if that floats your boat go for it, its just not my thing.
Eating .............now thats my thing so I have no issue myself tipping over pretty much anything using any method (excepting hinds when they have fawns at foot) solely based on how much meat I can recover.
For example if I could either
a) shoot a hind/yearling a long way from my transport and only recover 1/2 the usable meat and leave the rest on the hill
or
b) a stag (a goodie or otherwise) even in velvet where the whole animal could be recovered and utilised with no waste
then for me its a no brainer the stag would be all over rover.
I have let animals go as I simply don't think I can recover enough meat from where they are at
Thermal, Spotlights etc all have their uses too.

Left over dog bones
Attachment 158242

For those that say its not sporting I would say a sport is a contest between 2 equal parties or teams with same equipment used by both sides.

Sacrilege mikee, you cut the meat off the neck instead of cutting bone in neck chops !!
As far as assessing and leaving potential trophy animals in velvet, there are so few animals that would make good trophies it should be easy to leave the good ones.
For spikers, they need to have good thick spikes with thickness carrying up the spike. If they have little brow tines as well all the better. A bit of width and a big pedicle is also an indication of potential. A good big well grown animal will on average have a better head than a smaller deer.
Two year and over stags need to have good lower tines and a good Trey. If there is a good Brow, Bey, Trey on each side with good length going into the tops, chances are that the stag will make a trophy. Spread and good Treys frame the head, narrow heads with missing or low Treys never look good.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Sacrilege mikee, you cut the meat off the neck instead of cutting bone in neck chops !!
As far as assessing and leaving potential trophy animals in velvet, there are so few animals that would make good trophies it should be easy to leave the good ones.
For spikers, they need to have good thick spikes with thickness carrying up the spike. If they have little brow tines as well all the better. A bit of width and a big pedicle is also an indication of potential. A good big well grown animal will on average have a better head than a smaller deer.
Two year and over stags need to have good lower tines and a good Trey. If there is a good Brow, Bey, Trey on each side with good length going into the tops, chances are that the stag will make a trophy. Spread and good Treys frame the head, narrow heads with missing or low Treys never look good.

"Sacrilege mikee"
I was about to call him a miserable prick leaving FA for Dog's
He's a big Lad and needs his tucker :-)