Thread: Alpine Helicopters culling tahr

Like @R93 said, My guess would be they are counting numbers. Especially how @Ryan said they ignored deer that where there.

So @Ryan_Songhurst, did you see them shoot a tahr or at a tahr?

Originally Posted by bunji

Here is part of the DOC Email l received at the end of Nov last year ,stating cull had finished for summer on public conservation land -



You are receiving this Himalayan tahr control programme update as you have requested information about the Department of Conservation’s wild animal control programmes.


Tēnā koe,

We have completed our planned Himalayan tahr control operations within the tahr feral range for 2020.

Hunters can now head out on trips this summer on public conservation land throughout the feral range knowing tahr control for the year is complete.

Between mid-July and early November, we aerially controlled 7481 tahr on public conservation land to protect alpine eco-systems from the impacts of high tahr densities.

Maps showing where tahr were controlled as part of the Tahr Control Operational Plan for 2020/21 have been uploaded to the DOC website.

Sightings of identifiable males located outside of the national parks management unit have also been mapped to help hunters.




Next month, DOC will meet with the Tahr Plan Implementation Liaison Group to begin engagement on a Tahr Control Operational Plan for 2021/22.
We are approaching the development of next year’s work programme with an open mind and we are looking forward to reviewing what we have learnt over the past couple of years with members of the group.

Tahr controlled between July and November 2020:


A total of 7481 tahr have been controlled between July and November 2020 under the Tahr Control Operational Plan 2020/21.

Management Units 1-3 & 5-7

4,182 female and juvenile tahr were controlled on public conservation land located outside the national parks management unit, but inside of the feral range.
Outside the national parks management unit, DOC targeted high densities of tahr and did not target identifiable males. The groups targeted generally ranged in size between 10 to 30 animals. Other tahr were left for hunters in these areas.

Management Unit 4 (National Parks)

3,299 tahr were controlled within the Aoraki/Mount Cook and Westland Tai Poutini National Parks Management Unit to protect these special places.
Management Unit 4 (national parks) is the only location inside the feral range where DOC is legally required to target all tahr.



Thank you for your interest in Himalayan tahr.

Ngā mihi nui,

Dr Ben Reddiex

Operations Director

Funny how they cant say shot and left to rot! but use the word "CONTROLLED"

Called in at HeliServices.NZ when in Haast the other day and asked about the the landsborough tahr situation.
Ol mate said there certainly were a lot shot in there but he's done a fair few flights up there around Xmas said there were good mobs up there still.
No money in venison.
James hasn't, apparently, bothered this season cause the veni schedule is shithouse.
He did say Wallace was in the Haast area shooting for velvet.


Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Reindeer

Called in at HeliServices.NZ when in Haast the other day and asked about the the landsborough tahr situation.
Ol mate said there certainly were a lot shot in there but he's done a fair few flights up there around Xmas said there were good mobs up there still.
No money in venison.
James hasn't, apparently, bothered this season cause the veni schedule is shithouse.
He did say Wallace was in the Haast area shooting for velvet.


Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

Heli shooting for velvet is a prime example of the issues around management of WARO. It delivers almost zero conservation gains but the very few doing it impact heavily on the large number of owners (us) and their enjoyment of their/ our land. In my opinion it is a terrible management decision and regime when it happens. There is no doubt that reccy hunters who target stags only are in the same boat environmentally but people should have the right to do that as long as they support culls or commercial take of females to support that type of culture and regime. I really really would like to see WARO better managed to support the operators and a sustained harvest that works to agreed densities and sex ratios that are environmentally sustainable for long term gains and that fit in with a quality hunting experience for all. It can be done I am sure. I am also quite comfortable with poor stags and a pre agreed (based on science) percentage of young stags being taken commercially or otherwise for the long term health and betterment of the herd. Fact is that in some remote areas and even not so remote, the helicopter is our best tool and responsible operators our best allies. I know not all are trophy hunters but managing in this way also ensures a healthy population of hinds and others that are good for meat too. Just read an article in the States where ranchers are taking responsibility for removing an agreed quota of whitetail does each year as determined by the game management services. The ranchers are straight away noticing a dynamic rut with greater competition for does and bucks creating a better hunting experience. Just as Cam Speedy said in a recent article.

Cams been saying it for years....just no one listened....lots of males n few females makes for exciting rut hunting and low population growth WIN-WIN
velvet recovery shooting = still high population growth and less stags.....less rut activity LOOSE-LOOSE cause its hard to motivate folks to go chase stags in area thats been bombed up for the high value males...

It’s been publicised that the there is going to be a big audit done on no.s of animals. There is no culling going on.

and while Im up here on high horse,may as well say it...shooting stags pre rut for trophy value is just plain dumb...always was frowned upon as poor sportsmanship ,still applies. the main hunting magazines printing stories about it is dumb...and in case of NZ Hunter is just plain Lunacy ,it goes against the ethics they promote on TV show to the extreme....try to select older mature male who has passed on genetics
I have no issue with person shooting animal for meat...what ever it is...HOPEFULLY if has big rack of velvet and looks to have trophy potential it will be left to grow out...if not,so be it.....PERSONAL CHOICE.
I dont chase stags a lot during roar as dont like crowds...but will hope to run into stags afterwards,or late in roar after mad rush has finished.

Unless there is a huge jump in shot velvet price I havent heard of, I dont know how you could even justify an R22 shooting stags for velvet alone.

Game management likely will never work in Nz. Too many different interests with different ideas.

Helicopters hunting velvet only, is a bit weird. I was in the game for a long time and do not recall it happening. Times have changed however.

But you can't really moan about it when 95% of recreational hunters don't give a flying fuck about management or trophy potential. 99% wouldn't know how to assess a potential trophy deer when in its first couple years. The majority also wouldn't give a fuck and just shoot anyway so they have a kill. Or tney have the attitude if I don't shoot it now, someone else will.

Meat hunters using thermals, spotlights or just killing trophy stags in early velvet is just plain selfish and incompetent imo. I despise it and see it all the time here on the coast. If your after just meat why not just wait for a more suitable animal.

There is a lot of education and attitude change needed at the recreational level before any form of successful management can happen in NZ imo.





Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Dusty Fog

we are s l o w l y getting there

Yeah... Na

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

"Shooting" for velvet is a misinterpretation of what was likely said, it would be absolutely uneconomical. The spring/early summer season is often referred to as "the velvet" probably where the confusion arose. As far as game management goes, I backed the "Save the Thar campaign" - recent hunting on the West Coast revealed Thar in numbers that definitely require control, anyone that thinks otherwise is in cloud cuckoo land, when you can see upwards of 50 animals in 2 days in an area that has been shot over by helicopter it's a bit of an eye-opener. There is a lot of fanaticism regarding helicopters, DOC, 1080 and their effects on game hunting in NZ, if you don't read the BS that a lot write on here and just get out and make the most of the challenges that hunting in our extraordinary wilderness areas presents you'll probably be a lot happier person. If you're not getting results, enjoy the scenery and sharpen up, you can shoot tin cans in your back yard if you want something easy, reliable and unrewarding.

Originally Posted by R93

But you can't really moan about it when 95% of recreational hunters don't give a flying fuck about management or trophy potential. 99% wouldn't know how to assess a potential trophy deer when in its first couple years. The majority also wouldn't give a fuck and just shoot anyway so they have a kill. Or tney have the attitude if I don't shoot it now, someone else will.

Meat hunters using thermals, spotlights or just killing trophy stags in early velvet is just plain selfish and incompetent imo. I despise it and see it all the time here on the coast. If your after just meat why not just wait for a more suitable animal.

There is a lot of education and attitude change needed at the recreational level before any form of successful management can happen in NZ imo.





Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk

I would not know where to start assessing a potential trophy but then I am not trophy hunter. I have no issue with trophy hunting as if if that floats your boat go for it, its just not my thing.
Eating .............now thats my thing so I have no issue myself tipping over pretty much anything using any method (excepting hinds when they have fawns at foot) solely based on how much meat I can recover.
For example if I could either
a) shoot a hind/yearling a long way from my transport and only recover 1/2 the usable meat and leave the rest on the hill
or
b) a stag (a goodie or otherwise) even in velvet where the whole animal could be recovered and utilised with no waste
then for me its a no brainer the stag would be all over rover.
I have let animals go as I simply don't think I can recover enough meat from where they are at
Thermal, Spotlights etc all have their uses too.

Left over dog bones


For those that say its not sporting I would say a sport is a contest between 2 equal parties or teams with same equipment used by both sides.

Originally Posted by mikee

I would not know where to start assessing a potential trophy but then I am not trophy hunter. I have no issue with trophy hunting as if if that floats your boat go for it, its just not my thing.
Eating .............now thats my thing so I have no issue myself tipping over pretty much anything using any method (excepting hinds when they have fawns at foot) solely based on how much meat I can recover.
For example if I could either
a) shoot a hind/yearling a long way from my transport and only recover 1/2 the usable meat and leave the rest on the hill
or
b) a stag (a goodie or otherwise) even in velvet where the whole animal could be recovered and utilised with no waste
then for me its a no brainer the stag would be all over rover.
I have let animals go as I simply don't think I can recover enough meat from where they are at
Thermal, Spotlights etc all have their uses too.

Left over dog bones
Attachment 158242

For those that say its not sporting I would say a sport is a contest between 2 equal parties or teams with same equipment used by both sides.

Not that there is anything wrong with what your reasons are for taking animals but you just highlighted why any form of game or trophy management will never work in NZ.

I am also fully aware that thermals and spotlights have their uses.
Its the complete fuck wits that use them on public land I have issues with.


Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by mikee

I would not know where to start assessing a potential trophy but then I am not trophy hunter. I have no issue with trophy hunting as if if that floats your boat go for it, its just not my thing.
Eating .............now thats my thing so I have no issue myself tipping over pretty much anything using any method (excepting hinds when they have fawns at foot) solely based on how much meat I can recover.
For example if I could either
a) shoot a hind/yearling a long way from my transport and only recover 1/2 the usable meat and leave the rest on the hill
or
b) a stag (a goodie or otherwise) even in velvet where the whole animal could be recovered and utilised with no waste
then for me its a no brainer the stag would be all over rover.
I have let animals go as I simply don't think I can recover enough meat from where they are at
Thermal, Spotlights etc all have their uses too.

Left over dog bones
Attachment 158242

For those that say its not sporting I would say a sport is a contest between 2 equal parties or teams with same equipment used by both sides.

Wow you got Piranhas ,up your way.

Sent from my Nokia 7 plus using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by R93

I am also fully aware that thermals and spotlights have their uses.
Its the complete fuck wits that use them on public land I have issues with

100% And no bullshit its happening all the time. In the last year I have personally encountered this exact thing on multiple occasions.

Often they are even very open about what they are doing. Doc arnt policing it, nobody is.

If you try and stop them you'll just most likely end up getting a punch..And thus it continues


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk