Thread: Ballots. Rigged or not

Originally Posted by P38

Brads

I seem to get one for a couple of years then miss out for a couple.

Have missed out for two years now, hope to get one this year.

Cheers
Pete

I'll swap ya a mutton for a seat


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Originally Posted by BRADS

I'll swap ya a mutton for a seat


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Last time I won a ballot was for first week of February last year,

I need to win a ballot first, but you'd be welcome to come along.

Last two trips saw only me and my mate in Ruahine Hut and no one in No mans Hut.

I think if people don't get a week that they want they just don't bother turning up.

Never had to share with a tramping or Mountain Bike party and only once in the last 5 years did we have to share with another two man hunting party.

Cheers
Pete

Originally Posted by Maca49

Overseas hunters should be exploited and the same for fishermen, why let a trout fisherman bring in his own gear with the potential for pollution, should be able to hire or buy here, more money coming into the country, kayakers etc the same, why just give it away. Make it user pay, the same as we do, I don't think it would affect the guys wanted to come here.

Where would you draw the line though Macs? Golf clubs? Surf boards? Tramping boots?
Bio security is tougher coming into nz than most already, despite occasional hiccups.

Why don't they have a system where if you are successful in the ballot then you are not eligible to re-enter again for 3 or 4 years .
You have had your fun , its time for someone else to have a turn .


Ken

L

Originally Posted by R93

Thought I would start a new thread on this so as not to hijack the other any further.

There seems to be a real issue with the Haast roar and Hooker/Landsborough Thar ballots.

Mates and family of government employees being favoured and overseas hunters, mainly Australians flooding our ballots.

A lot of ozzys have paid for a guide on a first trip here and found out where to go and how to go about it. They now flood the ballot, particularly the Thar ballot.
We can't do anything similar in Australia or anywhere else so why can it happen here.
I have nothing against overseas hunters but there is no way a kiwi should miss out on a block for a non resident.
They should get a guide and pay a fee like we have to do, if we want to hunt elsewhere.

The safety aspect alone is a concern.
It is big mean country that kills plenty of kiwis that have a clue let alone someone from overseas. They all think they can handle it but I know shitloads that cry for a pickup as soon as it gets a bit cold or they see what the country is really like and then their ballot period is wasted when they run for home after a day or 2.


Happened in the Wapiti ballot this year.
A party from Oz 2 days in their block and were crying for the helicopter to come get them. Whole period wasted in that block.
If they need rescuing (Happens all the time. Not just hunters) it costs us as kiwis not them.


I know of a local person that gets the same period and Thar block every year and I am sure it happens for others as well.
It is bullshit.
How is that a fair ballot especially when you have to pay just to enter? I would go as far as calling it theft by DOC because for each back they scratch, they reduce the honest chances of anyone else and do this knowingly.

It costs $20 dollars just to apply. How does it cost that much to process an unsuccessful applicant?

I reckon only successful ballot winners should pay and pay more than the current cost if need be.
There is also the issue of people flooding the ballot by using everyone they know, to put in an application.
I assume the $20 fee is to stop that but it has not worked at all.
There must be other ways.....thoughts?

The GAC may in time take over some of the ballots, I don't know, but I bet if that happens it will be even worse regarding back scratching.

I recon the ballot should be drawn live online and with police or a JP present to ensure the process is fair and accurate.

I AM having a whinge but this bullshit is an issue and it is not just for my benefit.

I only enter the Thar ballot. If I miss out I have other options and am happy to use them.
I know of people who have missed many years in a row.
Getting rid of the dishonesty and overseas applicants will improve the ballot and the chances of people who have missed out for ages I reckon.





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A well written and thought provoking post Mr '93.....these blocks are public land, maintained and administered by DoC, funded by the New Zealand taxpayer?.....so Aussies ( and for that matter any other foreign hunter ) can come over for a free hunt....subsidised by us, the taxpayer.....yeah, nah.
Foreign hunters should not be allowed to hunt in anyway on public land, I'm buggered if I should pick up the tab.... Private land is where they should be, if at all.

Rigged ballots, yep, they seem to be, I don't have an answer.

B

Interesting....I would have thought a stand down period would apply if you got in one year stand for the next year or next application and if somebody is drawn but don't use kick em to the curb. Never applied for a ballot so this is all interesting.


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Totally agree with all you say R93, there is quite an under current of dissatisfied Kiwi's who hunt /fish in our wilderness areas only to find foreigners already there spreading their didimo and other foreign muck. Look at the recent missing people and the majority are non residents. A petition would be good. Non resident fishermen have to pay a higher fee than resident's. Around here the Aussies will soon arrive in mass and effectively hog some of the better area's. Had to sort out 2 some years ago, who were freekin rude to the max to the other fishermen, in the end they layed a complaint against me to F/G and the minister for conservation, turned out that one of them was a fisheries Officer over there. They can keep that attitude at home .... Rant over.

Only been part of the Wapiti ballot , that seems fair and reasonable ,but is open to foreigners . I was athe the briefing that all attend and The bloke taking the brief was going on about respecting trophies and not taking young stags etc . It was noticeable there was a party of hunters from Aussie that looked like the cast from " bogan Hunters " . I did wonder if they would respect the wishes of the wapiti foundation ? . Also respect Fiordland full stop .
I'd sign a petition to kiwis only !
I did some searching on Wapiti ballots and did find a discussion regarding the same people getting in year after year . Long and short of it was if applying do so in pairs , this gives more chances (?) . Also there is nothing to stop those "two people" taking in " non hunters " . Ie a photographer , or " camp bitch " etc . So you can see how some people can take the piss

Originally Posted by Maca49

Overseas hunters should be exploited and the same for fishermen, why let a trout fisherman bring in his own gear with the potential for pollution, should be able to hire or buy here, more money coming into the country, kayakers etc the same, why just give it away. Make it user pay, the same as we do, I don't think it would affect the guys wanted to come here.

Macca for minister of anti-tourism !

Originally Posted by BRADS

We have to put a ballot in up here to drive to no-mans, I no I'm an unlucky bugger but for 12 years ever September I get my dear John letter......
Not going to bother again, yet some people get in every year.......


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I applied once last year just to see what happens and got in.

Originally Posted by ebf

Macca for minister of anti-tourism !

Mac for anti recreation terrorism

All you can ask for is a fair ballot (Thanks Tommy, was starting to wonder about WFMC)
A ballot should be drawn in public under police supervision

Originally Posted by sako75

All you can ask for is a fair ballot (Thanks Tommy, was starting to wonder about WFMC)
A ballot should be drawn in public under police supervision

First time I've gone along and participated. It's a very representative slice actually. Just under 1000 entries, just over 200 block days available. Now, you can enter multiple times but you can only win one day. So anyone who gets drawn more than once gets passed over for the 'repeats'. There were 12 people in as having multiple entries (could be 2, or could be a dozen), 8 got drawn, and 3 got drawn twice or more (these got put aside and a fresh ballot drawn). This married up very nicely with a 1 in 4 or 5 chance of being selected. It works well.

Maybe this ballot could do with a bit more transparency, there should be no reason why they wouldn't agree with that unless it really is rigged or partially rigged. What would be the best organisation to approach the current guys and ask to watch/participate?

I think if it is done fairly and honestly then no need to monitor it.
When the odd sign of favoritism starts to show then is the time to do something about it.
Maybe all ballots should be drawn at a local NZDA meeting with members present as the scrutineers before the need arises. I recall the WFMC ballot use to be drawn at the Auckland clubroom in Pt. Chev

Originally Posted by Tommy

AFAIK in the woodhill ballot you have to have both names, FAL number. Even if you're bowhunting

You can't bow hunt in Woodhill, the ballot draw there is straight up, my good mate is heavily involved on the committee & his name hasn't been drawn for about 5 years! A couple of banned people tried entering again this year & they were excluded.