Thread: Ballots. Rigged or not

Originally Posted by sako75

I think if it is done fairly and honestly then no need to monitor it.
When the odd sign of favoritism starts to show then is the time to do something about it.
Maybe all ballots should be drawn at a local NZDA meeting with members present as the scrutineers before the need arises. I recall the WFMC ballot use to be drawn at the Auckland clubroom in Pt. Chev

We alternate every year between Auckland and North Auckland Deerstalkers clubrooms and invite their respective members to come along and help with the draw. Anyone is free to come and watch/help.

Transparency in ballots is essential as it not only allows those who apply to see the process, but it also provides the opportunity for new ideas to be floated.

Allgood
WFMC

Some really good ideas so far.
Having the draws supervised.
Having a stand down period if successful etc.
I have won ballots on blocks I never applied for and found that strange.
I just want to see it fair for everyone. Even overseas hunters.
I am wanting to address the current format with DOC but pretty sure if I do it alone my issues will be filed in the rubbish bin.
I have never petitioned or tried to change anything political and have no idea how to be taken seriously when I try.

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It's interesting that the Haast & Wanaka ballots, both run by DOC are run completely differently, I wonder why that is??

With Wanaka you have to put all party member names/FAL down on the application form so that reduces the amount of entries people can put in & pay a success fee.

Haast roar ballot is open slather, any individual can put an entry in, nothing to stop you & your mates putting entries in under your cats & dogs names.... DOC Haast of course get $20 per entry so the more the merrier form there point of view I'm guessing?

I got the strong impression that the guys who came into our block after us get it 3rd period pretty regularly.....

Foreign hunters shouldn't be allowed to entry or be heavily restricted on how many are available to them.

Originally Posted by outdoorlad

It's interesting that the Haast & Wanaka ballots, both run by DOC are run completely differently, I wonder why that is??

Different conservancies

Originally Posted by sako75

I recall the WFMC ballot use to be drawn at the Auckland clubroom in Pt. Chev

Yep, still is

Rigged? I'm not sure thats the word to use or not maybe more like system cheats? at the expense of kiwi hunters.

The problem with the tahr ballot is the system is very easily cheated same with Wanaka and Haast. You can enter without providing your party details so everyone thats in your party can put in for there own ballot with either your mums and dads names your cats whatever, as the hunters joining you knowing full well they wont go hunting. (not saying I do this but i know many that do exactly the above) Then your all your party members enter there own ballot application doing the same.

Then when all your party all gets there DOC letter in the mail guys simply pick the best blocks and ditch mum and dad and bring your real hunting mates (the ones that had entered there own ballot) The problem is obvious many genuine "one" entry hunters miss out and wonder why. Combine this with a heap overseas hunters the odds have severely diminished. Its sad but true, many hunters apply 3,4,5,6 even more ballots under names of mates or bow hunters that never intended hunting that particular ballot but are happy to hand over a block to there mate should they be successful. The problem is these guys will get maybe 2,3,4 blocks use the best one and keep the rest meaning many blocks sit empty throughout the best time.

To me the problem is the system... If every hunter had to have a full list of hunters joining them with the firearms licence number as well (same as the Wapiti ballot) and the on the application your name can only show up on one ballot form half the problem is sorted.

The next issue is kiwi tax paying hunters missing out to overseas hunters while i think its great that we have so many overseas hunters coming to this country every year i also believe they have it to easy. Guys entering the tahr ballot come once, like mentioned above with a NZ guide then turn up the following year with there mates. While i have no problem with overseas hunters hunting in NZ surely some loyalty towards kiwi hunters that have individually paid thousands and thousands towards funding in tax levys that goes into running this country and DOC should have first crack at hunting our own country.

Theres articles in Aussie and American hunting magazine on how to enter our ballots and how amazing the hunting is and its free. This is purely at the expense of genuine kiwi hunters they are the ones that miss out on hunting opportunities in there own back yard. I recently saw an Aussie hunting TV show running tahr ballot entry education nights teaching them how to enter and what blocks are best and charging them for it. Im not sure what the solution is for this but id like to see maybe some blocks set aside for overseas hunters and maybe the application fee $100 per person then if successful and extra charge of $100 or more with all money going back to running the system/program.

For me personally id be happy to pay extra in application fee if i knew it was a 100% fair system It just really frustrates me that the only person losing is your run of the mill hard working kiwi hunter who gets 10 days off a year to hunt and he's forced to miss out to an overseas hunter here for 7 days that then fly's home with his trophy.

And the biggest issue of all is DOC dont care anyway they just want animals dead...

just my 2cents

Happy and safe hunting.

Awesome post Topsy😆

FFS! Running a course on how to enter the ballot???
What a friggin Joke!!
That is bloody shocking.
Jaysus give em an inch and they take a mile. This bullshit has to be stopped..
I am going to use some contacts to find out how to go about addressing this.
Doc are an embarrassment.



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well don't do it by yourself, surely there is someone on here or in the other pubs who could write a petition and get it submitted to the forum's and then we all get to sign. I'm sure this touch's the heart of a lot of our members.

Originally Posted by Gapped axe

well don't do it by yourself, surely there is someone on here or in the other pubs who could write a petition and get it submitted to the forum's and then we all get to sign. I'm sure this touch's the heart of a lot of our members.

It should touch every NZ hunter GA.
A cobber of mine runs the mountain radios on the coast.
He has had 6 calls from Oz this week booking radios.
I really need some ideas how to fix it before we can approach anyone.
If we can get the overseas applicants squashed or limited that will be a big start.



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What about a special IWI ballot?

just like local body and national body elections?

Give us a special chance eh.

Originally Posted by Wild game havester

What about a special IWI ballot?

just like local body and national body elections?

Give us a special chance eh.

That would-be racist.

How does the ballot work? For instance is it open and above board? ie there is the disputes tribunal rather than full court. I just wonder if you can challenge the system via that? costs about $35 I think. You would have to present some real evidence of vote rigging to back up your claim however but if you can show a reasonable case over say 5 years you might get some leverage? dunno you can but ask.

Whether these ballots are rigged/ unfair or whatever, I don't know as I have zero experience on them.
However, I firmly believe that trying to exclude overseas visitors would be like farting against thunder, as tourism dollars are deemed far too valuable to put at risk.
It would also smack of racism in a lot of people's eyes.

Hunters coming here from overseas are hunting for free bar maybe food and helicopter costs.
They are getting this free because you pay for it.
Every other country must be racist as well because we have to pay thru the ass to hunt there.

I also get sick of seeing parties of overseas hunters with a dozen 11" bull thar heads coming out of their blocks thinking they are successful.
You have to see the mess left behind from some of these parties as well.

Making it user pays as some other countries do is fine. But excluding overseas visitors as suggested by some would be playing into the do gooders hands.