Thread: Bloody Poachers!

I never said it was smart, its just what he did.
There is also no proof of cockatoo farmers switching deer.
Defend all you like I'm simply doing the same from the other side based on my own experiences and those of my family. And I'm sure some will read my posts and think I've made it up that it sounds a little to "wild west" but I cant help that I can only put it down as I remember it happening.
I have no broad based dislike of choppers and those that operate them and I believe that the few ruin the reputation for the many, maybe the same for farmers?

Doesnt sound too wild west too me Sneeze. I have seen or heard of plenty of similar scenarios. Nicking deer out of remote traps/pens was a common one. Deer being run into fences by choppers on farms so they break their necks. Fences cut on back boundries and so on.
Some spiteful things still do happen from time to time. Some really funny things as well.

Originally Posted by R93

Doesnt sound too wild west too me Sneeze. I have seen or heard of plenty of similar scenarios. Nicking deer out of remote traps/pens was a common one. Deer being run into fences by choppers on farms so they break their necks. Fences cut on back boundries and so on.
Some spiteful things still do happen from time to time. Some really funny things as well.

Yes we all heard about these terrible things but when investigated 99% proved to be just that, rumours and ...Paranoia.

I mean to say how visible is a helicopter hovering over a farm chasing deer around so they break their necks. Expensive fun as well. Surely going up and cutting the fences after dark would be a more sensible option if it was being done for spite.

The proof of how often this sort of thing happened, is in researching how many operators were ever actually ever prosecuted for such crimes.
I dont remember one. You see the standard of proof is quite high really, rightfully so, or I would have been prosecuted on just such rumours myself.

Or is the proof of a crime as easily decided in peoples minds, with as little proof, as we have seen here on this thread.

Ok? Then they were just bloody good rumours/stories made by the people that had claimed too have done these things then.

Originally Posted by Scribe

The proof of how often this sort of thing happened, is in researching how many operators were ever actually ever prosecuted for such crimes.
I don't remember one. You see the standard of proof is quite high really, rightfully so, or I would have been prosecuted on just such rumors myself.

Or is the proof of a crime as easily decided in peoples minds, with as little proof, as we have seen here on this thread.

So in your way of thinking if it wasn't reported and prosecuted it didn't really happen?

Originally Posted by sneeze

So in your way of thinking if it wasn't reported and prosecuted it didn't really happen?

I could tell you dozens of stories of what went on during those rough old days of venison recoverey and live capture but I wasnt sitting in the pilots or shooters seat when they happened. I could tell you some stories of when I was. Then we have the fact thats there is always two sides to any story the helicopter crew and the farmer. So they remain just that stories, rumours and paranoia, These require no proof but they have over the years cost people like me money.

Prosecutions actually do require proof.

The alternative for some people is if they think someone is poaching they smash his gear. When he gets out he smashes everybody elses gear....so soon no one has got any gear and we are all to scared to go hunting

An eye for an eye and soon everyone is blind.

I'm not condoning smashing anyones gear here, back then the police weren't interested in poaching and they where more than a couple of hours away so basically no use at all. Any incidences had to handled face to face and as you've pointed out accelerating an issue wasn't in anyones interest though when it continues for years its sometimes not so easy to avoid.
Question though, where lies the difference between my telling of the chopper buzzing our deer paddock and yours of metoo cockatoos who's opinions swing with the wind and swap spiker's for hinds?
The proof is in the prosecution theory reminds me of "if a mans talking and there isn't a woman around is he still wrong" I cant help but wonder though how many of those rumors and stories would be prosocutions if we had back then the video camera in every hand that we have today. The inability to provide proof was the reason many incedents went unreported. At a guess Id have to say the number would be relevant.

As I said earlier the inability to find proof never stopped them from taking me to court. The powers didnt work that way then, if a complaint was recieved they took a mans Wild Animal Recovery Licence away from him on the spot.

Tales of poaching helicopters were just that myths and Folk Law, in the vast majority of cases Brought on by paranoia,...No more believable or relevant than the tale of Maui pulling up the North Island with his bloody fishing line.

I dont know one single helicopter Pilot that I have ever met that would chase a farmers hinds into the fence to break their necks. Why would they do something a highly visible as this with no gain?????.

Pilots and shooters might do some things for a bit of a lark but they were not stupid.

Well I dont know one single farmer thats dishonest enough to swap deer but Im not blind enough to think that it didnt or wouldnt happen because I dont know them all. The Events I talk about are real, they happened, If you would like I can Pm you some background and more detail as to how it came about. You could well be right about the majority of past claims but not all. As its in past there is no way of proving it either way so there is probably little point in trying to change each others mind. I will continue to believe that chopper operators are much the same as the rest of the population, mostly good people( maybe some with the vince martin glint in their smile) but with the odd bad egg.Much like my opinion of farmers.

I agree with much of what you say, But I must say that am forced to take the side of those grossly misaligned persons called poachers.

Until a court of law proves beyond reasonable doubt that they are poachers as they stand accused of being.

Originally Posted by Scribe

Less sense than robbing the corner dairy when you had 2 mill in the bank.

I reserve the right to defend anyone against paranoia and false accusations of poaching . Have a read through this thread and you will see that there is absolutley no proof that any poaching at all has occurred and yet people want the owner of this vehicle Trespassed. Worse still others want his vehicle damaged or destroyed.

This is the same mindless paranoia that caused stupid young men to piss in our jerrycans full of fuel.

100% agree with you Scribe. The only difference is the oxygen waster you mentioned actually did it, most of the sh*t talk on here is done from the safety of a computer... Chest puffing.

Originally Posted by Scribe

I agree with much of what you say, But I must say that am forced to take the side of those grossly misaligned persons called poachers.

Until a court of law proves beyond reasonable doubt that they are poachers as they stand accused of being.

FFS so it it aint put to cort it didn't happen.....so just how many time did you poach that it didn't happen because it didn't find its way to court or couldn't be proved in court.


So its OK to shoot on someones property because you can get awy with it

People fork out plenty of money to buy dirt and they have the say on what happens on that dirt ..... Buying a chopper does not give you the right to poach because you can get away with it....I am not surprised damage gets done to choppers at times when some push the limits way beyond the norm and they get off on lack of evedence....the deer may run back to the bush but you have NO right to take it off a farm unless permition is sort and given.....Or you are a farken filthy poacher weather its taken to court or not!!!!

Yes I have farming background and we let people on our place but not to hunt....nothing to shoot there but if we did boarder the bush for saftey sake we need to know who is doing what on our land!

Make no mistake the owner of that truck was poaching on my block, he had no right to be there and should be trespassed, i hope the police followed through with what they said.
The block is Lease hold and is part of the Gore NZDA blocks leased by Glenaray Station, now if they were members of the club they would of only had to book the block to hunt it and if they had a permit for Waikaia Forest they would of received a map showing them the boundarys of this block as a no go. Thats if they had a permit for Waikaia, i doubt they did.
We know they were in the block simply because with fresh snow on the ground we just followed their foot prints from their truck straight into our block.
As much as this sort of thing pisses me off an can end up in accidental shootings i wouldn't damage their vehicle but it would be tempting.
Another thing worth considering is if they did shoot one of us whilst they were poaching is it still accidental or should charges be bumped up?

Originally Posted by leathel

FFS so it it aint put to cort it didn't happen.....so just how many time did you poach that it didn't happen because it didn't find its way to court or couldn't be proved in court.


So its OK to shoot on someones property because you can get awy with it

People fork out plenty of money to buy dirt and they have the say on what happens on that dirt ..... Buying a chopper does not give you the right to poach because you can get away with it....I am not surprised damage gets done to choppers at times when some push the limits way beyond the norm and they get off on lack of evedence....the deer may run back to the bush but you have NO right to take it off a farm unless permition is sort and given.....Or you are a farken filthy poacher weather its taken to court or not!!!!

Yes I have farming background and we let people on our place but not to hunt....nothing to shoot there but if we did boarder the bush for saftey sake we need to know who is doing what on our land!

If you have got the proof take it to court. Who made you judge and jury...are you the sort that would piss in my jerrycans of fuel because you supect I might be a poacher. Or pick up a stone and damage the paintwork on someones vehicle for the same reason.

Perhaps hes not poaching perhaps you just want to trespass him to keep him out of your favourite hunting area or try and scare him off by damaging his property.

Ever been lost up on the tops and cut down the wrong creek through DOC land and ended up on someones farm...With a rifle in your hands that two cases of poaching and if this hasnt happened to you yet you havnt done very much hunting.

The same thing happens in low cloud with helicopters...you may be forced to fly across properties at low level under the cloud to get out of the area...Farmer paranoia and you lose your.... Pilots Licence for Low flying. Your Wild Animal Recovery Licence for poaching.
and the courts may prosecute and sentence you to whatever they see fit for breaking the law. And pilots you say would take this sort of risk to chase someones deer into the fence just out of spite.

If you have proof of poaching and you arent just living on rumours take it to the courts.... and next time you go for a ride in a chopper just have a think about whats going to happen when the flame goes out cos someone pissed in the fuel.

Oh and by the way I do have land and I do let people on to hunt on it.

[QUOTE=Scribe;29412]I agree with much of what you say, But I must say that am forced to take the side of those grossly misaligned persons called poachers.

Until a court of law proves beyond reasonable doubt that they are poachers as they stand accused of being.[/QUOTE

One sunday back in 1988 ,at the southern end off Rangitoto range ,i was sitting in a friends dinning room table drinking a coffee early in the morning ,my mate is a hunter a farmer and owned the farm i was at, we had just saddled up for a hunt up in the range so a last brew then hit the hill ,just the night before we had chatted about the trouble he was having from poachers both land and air on the farm , my mate enjoyed seeing deer close to the house an had never shot any, we could hear the buzz of the copper in the distance getting louder ,then a machine a peered over his side boundary and about 900 meters from his house and a cross the large gully on the farm ,they shot two hind's hooked them and left ,the markings on the machine where covered up ,now this is were ive gone wrong it seems ive always coincided those ass holes as Poaches ,but now it seems that because who ever they were and never having a day in court they my not be , what ever they mite not be due to a lack of conviction ,they still are couple of low life thieving c*nts and i reckon i don't need a court of law to convince me other wise .Can't help thinking there just may be a shooter or pilot on this forum that can recall the events down around that area way back then ?,Nar can't be im just being paranoid .Food for thought thou the jury is out on this one at the moment.