Thread: Buller /Tasman biggest 1080 drop in history this spring

and the solution is???? this is the real kicker. Plenty of armchair pseudo science PHDs in biology/chemistry/philosophy/physics/economics/politics and yet, after how many years, why has there not been a better solution arrived at? or do we blame DOC/AHB for this failing as well? and don't come back with the tired old (and totally unbelievable) "1080 gravy train dribble either, or you've got you're 3 strikes and are straight to Ignorant Island.
How does a small country with a tiny GDP and vast tracts of public owned wilderness maintain its biodiversity plus support an agri business economy that creates the bulk of the revenue? See the vicious circle?
I doubt anyone would argue 1080 is anything more than a crude tool, but ist the only viable tool we have that can do the job no one else wants to do.
If you REALY want something to lose sleep over try looking at cadmium soil contamination across NZ, or the even more concerning water quality and water shortages occurring across NZ. North Canterbury just lost its fresh water fishing season due to contamination WTF and the Ashburton Council water consent debacle is madness in my eyes but i suppose these real issues don't remove a few deer from some chumps fav bush block so aren't anywhere near as relevant, plus theres no easy scapegoat here.
These are real problems we face in the short term, not the "1080 problem that wasn't".

Not everyone who dislikes 1080 is a hunter or is even bothered about the loss of a few deer/pigs/cham/thar other than the extremely inhumane way they die.

It is incredibly ignorant to assume any hunter is anti 1080 because it may kill some of his or her targets.
As a hunter I enjoy the outdoors, the birds if there is any, the peace and quiet, the views. Really shooting something is secondary to that and many other things, I dont have too much trouble finding a deer despite 1080 and when I do I rarely actually shoot one preferring to help someone else shoot or just watch nature doing its thing.

No I dislike 1080 because clearly it is not working in some areas it does more harm to the native species it is so post to protect than doing nothing.

Yes our water quality is a real concern when you cannot eat fish from the rivers due to pollution and 1080 is included in that pollution.

1080 has its place.... but none of those places are alpine areas unless hand laid into baitstations, none of those places are peoples water supplys, none of those places are easily accessible trappable blocks.

Originally Posted by kiwijames

and the solution is???? this is the real kicker. Plenty of armchair pseudo science PHDs in biology/chemistry/philosophy/physics/economics/politics and yet, after how many years, why has there not been a better solution arrived at? or do we blame DOC/AHB for this failing as well? and don't come back with the tired old (and totally unbelievable) "1080 gravy train dribble either, or you've got you're 3 strikes and are straight to Ignorant Island.
How does a small country with a tiny GDP and vast tracts of public owned wilderness maintain its biodiversity plus support an agri business economy that creates the bulk of the revenue? See the vicious circle?
I doubt anyone would argue 1080 is anything more than a crude tool, but ist the only viable tool we have that can do the job no one else wants to do.
If you REALY want something to lose sleep over try looking at cadmium soil contamination across NZ, or the even more concerning water quality and water shortages occurring across NZ. North Canterbury just lost its fresh water fishing season due to contamination WTF and the Ashburton Council water consent debacle is madness in my eyes but i suppose these real issues don't remove a few deer from some chumps fav bush block so aren't anywhere near as relevant, plus theres no easy scapegoat here.
These are real problems we face in the short term, not the "1080 problem that wasn't".

Sorry, theres people on one side of the fence and people on the other. Its pointless trying to argue the point of your view compared to the other view you dont believe as you not going to change either sides view. You say the "1080 gravy train "is B/S.
Many on the other side would say you in total dreamland if you believe that.
So you think water quality is a bigger issue than tons of toxic poison thats banned in most of the world being dropped around the countryside willy nilly .
Well, did you think tons of 1080 being dropped in streams and rivers , dead animals lying in streams and rivers, the by kill of trout that eat 1080 mice, eels, the fresh water crayfish and who knows what else that die from 1080 or get 1080 poisoning isnt a factor in poor water quality as well??
Do we actually know what the long term effect of 1080 is actually going to do to the countryside and living things in it., do we know if the insects that eat dead matter on 1080 animals and then get eaten by birds is having a impact on bird numbers, or breeding?
The answer is NO, but one thing is for sure, it isnt actually going to be good and we can all agree on that.
I could go on, but heres the thing, you in one camp or the other.
Both feel strongly that the other sides view is ridiculous. B/S in actually fact, and nothings going to change that. So, you believe what you like, i believe what i like , you know im wrong, i KNOW you wrong, thats life

Originally Posted by deer243

Sorry, theres people on one side of the fence and people on the other. Its pointless trying to argue the point of your view compared to the other view you dont believe as you not going to change either sides view. You say the "1080 gravy train "is B/S.
Many on the other side would say you in total dreamland if you believe that.
So you think water quality is a bigger issue than tons of toxic poison thats banned in most of the world being dropped around the countryside willy nilly .
Well, did you think tons of 1080 being dropped in streams and rivers , dead animals lying in streams and rivers, the by kill of trout that eat 1080 mice, eels, the fresh water crayfish and who knows what else that die from 1080 or get 1080 poisoning isnt a factor in poor water quality as well??
Do we actually know what the long term effect of 1080 is actually going to do to the countryside and living things in it., do we know if the insects that eat dead matter on 1080 animals and then get eaten by birds is having a impact on bird numbers, or breeding?
The answer is NO, but one thing is for sure, it isnt actually going to be good and we can all agree on that.
I could go on, but heres the thing, you in one camp or the other.
Both feel strongly that the other sides view is ridiculous. B/S in actually fact, and nothings going to change that. So, you believe what you like, i believe what i like , you know im wrong, i KNOW you wrong, thats life

You have me wrong, but don't worry you're not the first. I like to base my judgement on as much information as possible, and I like that information to have as much supporting evidence to be credible. I try to see no fence to hang my hat either side of.
1080 certainly is emotive, and there have been occasional stuff ups with it to make even the staunchest supporter cringe but, and it's a big but, if you take away the singular errors and your own personal emotion I can only find that 1080 is an effective tool with enough backing to convince me it's the right move in our current position. I have yet to see a single low cost, multi layered, relatively safe option available.
The issue is a national one and from my own perspective I am seeing no nett losses of birds etc. Maybe different strategies in your neck of the woods but I would struggle to see how.
The positive that can be taken from this is that there are a large number of kiwis who do care about our wild places and all that reside there.

Originally Posted by kiwijames

You have me wrong, but don't worry you're not the first. I like to base my judgement on as much information as possible, and I like that information to have as much supporting evidence to be credible. I try to see no fence to hang my hat either side of.
1080 certainly is emotive, and there have been occasional stuff ups with it to make even the staunchest supporter cringe but, and it's a big but, if you take away the singular errors and your own personal emotion I can only find that 1080 is an effective tool with enough backing to convince me it's the right move in our current position. I have yet to see a single low cost, multi layered, relatively safe option available.
The issue is a national one and from my own perspective I am seeing no nett losses of birds etc. Maybe different strategies in your neck of the woods but I would struggle to see how.
The positive that can be taken from this is that there are a large number of kiwis who do care about our wild places and all that reside there.

Least we can agree on your last sentence thats for sure. I understand what you saying,but its a fact that DOC and the Government are only releasing pro 1080 supporting evidence out in the media. Anything negitive is sweeped under the carpet. Theres plenty of supporting evidence out there that says otherwise, but it wont come out in the media as no ones willing to put their neck out to put it out there.(prob has something to do with not biting the hand that feeds them). Spin doctors that DOC have employed have done a good job in convincing the public that their side is the facts....its not.
Like i said, theres one camp or the other. Possum numbers are the lowest theres been for years....how many?
DOC for years have always quoted the same old B/S that theres 70 million possums out of control....we all know that as the years have gone on that the numbers have dropped untold, DOC might know, maybe they not interested in knowing, but the fact is theres no way they want it out there as justifying 1080 in a increase amount could be hard to get away with.
Of cause they have found a answer, its a rat plague, .....lots know thats B/S too but it depends on what camp you in, the 1080 industry rolls on

1080 is needed to control the possums that spread the tb to the sheep.
I heard it on the 1080 so it must be true.


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Some good debating going on here.
I think that it is just a shame that DOC are not more transparent. They are a government department and there for they should be!
If there are any dirty dealing then it needs to stop!
And stop now