Thread: Bullet Performance on game

I'd rather have lots of internal damage and no exit wound than a bullet that will just blow through ribs and out the other side and relies on having to hit heavy mussel or shoulder bone to start to open up.
I've been a fan of Berger and ELD-M type bullets that are similar to the SST or the older Sierra GameKings.
My experiencing has been that they give me more room for error.
Some years back on a Thar 240 mtr I pulled my shot high, a heavy bullet would have passed though and created a small high lung wound, the 87gr Berger chewed up a section of spine with fragments and the base was found under the skin of the off side.

NB I accept that I'm not shooting in situations that require an animal to be dropped on the spot with a double shoulder hit but that's very rear for most of us.
Just like large Stags close up in the bush may be more suited to a core bonded bullet
And I'm shooting all short action so not driving bullets at Magnum velocities.

Shot a sika stag last night with 53gr Barnes @250m. Destroyed shoulder and boiler room.Just folded it. Havent used that rifle for 2 years.

Originally Posted by TeRei

Shot a sika stag last night with 53gr Barnes @250m. Destroyed shoulder and boiler room.Just folded it. Havent used that rifle for 2 years.

That's pretty impressive performance from what I assume is a .224 projectile. I seems the Barnes bullets have great
reputation form opening up nicely and then holding together for good penetration. It looks to me like the monolithic (all copper) projectiles in general are as close to the optimum hunting bullet as you can get.

I haven’t shot nearly as many animals as many of you, but I’ve never had an animal walk away from a 130gr SST from my .270. Most have dropped on the spot & none have gone more than about 10-15m. Have taken a couple at around 350yd but mostly within 100yd. 8m neck shot on a red stag during the 2020 roar dropped him on the spot. Likewise with a 5m head shot on a 4pt red outside the roar. Have never recovered a projectile from any animal. Don’t mind if a shoulder shot causes a bit more trauma than other projectiles, as I’d rather lose a little extra meat but make sure the animal goes down quick & hard. Not saying it’s the best projectile out there, but it’s what I’ve always used & I’m yet to lose an animal from one.

Originally Posted by Pixie Z

I haven’t shot nearly as many animals as many of you, but I’ve never had an animal walk away from a 130gr SST from my .270. Most have dropped on the spot & none have gone more than about 10-15m. Have taken a couple at around 350yd but mostly within 100yd. 8m neck shot on a red stag during the 2020 roar dropped him on the spot. Likewise with a 5m head shot on a 4pt red outside the roar. Have never recovered a projectile from any animal. Don’t mind if a shoulder shot causes a bit more trauma than other projectiles, as I’d rather lose a little extra meat but make sure the animal goes down quick & hard. Not saying it’s the best projectile out there, but it’s what I’ve always used & I’m yet to lose an animal from one.

The 95gr SST did some damage to 2 stags the other night. They dont walk and they dont know what hit them.

Large bodied animal 3/4 away
Hit in ribs just on point of shoulder
Took 3 ribs
Blew lungs heart aorta
Small fragment exited just below shoulder on off side
95grn sst .243 factory load 2 days ago

I disagree with the common idea that 'if the bullet stops inside the animal it transfers all its energy'. This does not consider the importance of 'momentum'
In my opinion a frangible light bullet actually dissipates its energy into flesh. A heavy for calibre soft projectile has sufficient momentum to penetrate as well as doing damage effectively at range. The only downside being a curved trajectory.
A bullet that retains weight and 'momentum' will penetrate fully and 'suck' tissue and fluid out of the animal through a 'venturi' effect, depressurising the cardiovascular system and also stopping the function of the lungs with a chest hit even if the lungs are not damaged.
The alternative to a soft big 'heavy for calibre' bullet is a lighter but bonded bullet or a mono ( I have not used monos personally) If a cartridge produces a high bullet impact velocity 2950 fps + then soft bullets will blow up and dissipate energy with non lethal effect.
I have seen this with 100gr Sierras at 3500 out of a 2506 causing a wound only about 30mm deep and 150 mm in diameter.

A boat sinks faster with 2 holes in it rather than 1.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

I disagree with the common idea that 'if the bullet stops inside the animal it transfers all its energy'. This does not consider the importance of 'momentum'
In my opinion a frangible light bullet actually dissipates its energy into flesh. A heavy for calibre soft projectile has sufficient momentum to penetrate as well as doing damage effectively at range. The only downside being a curved trajectory.
A bullet that retains weight and 'momentum' will penetrate fully and 'suck' tissue and fluid out of the animal through a 'venturi' effect, depressurising the cardiovascular system and also stopping the function of the lungs with a chest hit even if the lungs are not damaged.
The alternative to a soft big 'heavy for calibre' bullet is a lighter but bonded bullet or a mono ( I have not used monos personally) If a cartridge produces a high bullet impact velocity 2950 fps + then soft bullets will blow up and dissipate energy with non lethal effect.
I have seen this with 100gr Sierras at 3500 out of a 2506 causing a wound only about 30mm deep and 150 mm in diameter.

That's an excellent perspective on an often debated subject. Also an exit wound will give you a blood trail if the animal does not stop and drop.

Two holes for me. I like blood to track and plenty of it. In saying that though if impact and muzzle velocities are 2800 fps I do like copper and core pills but always mid to heavier for calibre.


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I too use heavy for calibre bonded bullets at moderate speeds, projectile pass thru lets more light into the animal and also a decent blood trail.
Tried "fast 6.5' calibre " thats all the rage and didn't go so well for me, I'm not convinced they kill as "well" as larger cals but they sure are trendy

Originally Posted by zeropak

That's an excellent perspective on an often debated subject. Also an exit wound will give you a blood trail if the animal does not stop and drop.

i will try and find the meat-eater podcast ballistics expert goes into detail about what works and doesn't and dispels some ballistic myths

found it - mostly covers archery but goes into ballistics aswell very very good listen
https://www.themeateater.com/listen/...rchers-paradox

the archers paradox is USUALLY the way an arrow starts off kinked and flys in a wobbly fashion to its target. the string forces arrow to be off to one side on an old traditional bow...not so much when bow has cut out/bent bit in middle so arrow stays straight... its a funny thing to watch in slow motion.

for deer n pigs I usually use heavy n slow up close and lighter pills out further,cause they fly flatter and are my more accurate reloads,the light ones work up close too,but I like heavy just incase of poor angle of shrubbery in the way.
go back 35 years and I used what ever was on the shelf of gun shop...stuck to same bullet weight as impact would be closer.
poke bullet in right place and it will die.

Originally Posted by zeropak

That's pretty impressive performance from what I assume is a .224 projectile. I seems the Barnes bullets have great
reputation form opening up nicely and then holding together for good penetration. It looks to me like the monolithic (all copper) projectiles in general are as close to the optimum hunting bullet as you can get.

Barnes are pretty good but I don’t know if they are the optimum hunting bullet. They expand consistently into a 4 petal shape which does a lot of damage, and penetrate exceptionally well (normally exit and have high weight retention). They’re a good all rounder and a very good option if you are using a small caliber e.g. meat hunting with a 223, or bush hunting red stags in the roar with a 243

Where the Barnes falls over is that their BCs aren’t that flash compared to an optimised lead core projectile of the same weight. BC is fairly irrelevant for the type of hunting I do but it definitely matters at extended ranges when there’s a bit of wind about. The LRX range have better BCs but they are very long for their weight and need a fast twist, and may not stabilise in some factory rifles. Also, there is a view that the Barnes won’t drop deer hit in the chest with quite the same authority as a frangible lead core bullet; probably right but I can’t imagine a deer going far when a mushroom shaped piece of copper with 4 sharp petals has punched through it

The optimum hunting bullet is probably one of the new generation bonded lead core bullets like the eld-x, which have very high BCs and are designed to give consistency terminal performance from point blank to way out there (theoretically)

Ballistic tips for me. 140gns. They don’t go far