Thread: Calibre for goats and occasional deer?

I'm in the same boat as you deer 243. I'm even more careful as my rifle of choice on most occasions is the 223 so shot placement is everything. I've shot a stag out to 180m and dropped him. I've also shot another stag across a river late last year with a well placed neck shot and it went belly up. All other deer have been shot in the bush and gone no further then 20-30m. It's not what you shoot with its how you shoot that matters!

this thread has been running a bit now,
I wonder what sort of country mighty Boosh is hunting, open or tight bush, and if there are deer and pigs, in his goat hunting area's.
My pick would be a .222 or .223 for goats, and if its open country with longer shots, and deer around a 22-250 or .243, bit more expensive but both much more capable.
In thick bush country, 3030 or a 7.62x39 bolt action, be both cheap to run, work fine on intended game.

the problem with the lighter calibers is there is a HUGE difference in killing power depending on what bullet you use . . . the bigger .308s etc have bullet weight which balances out things in there favour . . sadly most shooters are cheap when it comes to ammo . . then recoil to worry about . .. and if it all turns to custard the gun / caliber gets blamed . .. i wish people would learn good marksmanship skills ( real ones not shooting off the bench or cans n bottles ) and work their way up the caliber chain as skills developed, but everyone is in a hurry.

Originally Posted by Tararua Phil

We often see deer @200yds+ across gullies etc while bush stalking goats. Too far "FOR ME" to kill reliably with my 223 so use the JW 103 Bisley 7.62x39 or Sako260 instead. Too expensive to shoot goats solely with the 260 though, even with reloading.

Nah mate the 260 is the ducks nuts on goats and deer. 120 gr corelocts are $99 for 200 so cheaper than most projectiles and work a treat on all the game discussed including bull tahr

Yep. 260 is a great cartridge for goats.

May have to go back to start of post....guy is just after a rifle to knock some goats over and still capable of a good deer rifle, in assuming a beginners hands?
Doesn't mention any desire to also start out buying reloading gear, learning that art, developing precision loads for precision shots out of experienced hands with lighter weight calibers.
Maybe him in a few years time....��?
All posts above are quite correct but maybe not for this guys situation, example 260 Rem is awesome calibre(had a 260 tikka and foolishly sold)but almost identical to 7mm08 or even its parent cartridge 308. You can get around 3 different types of factory in NZ, when you can get hold of it at magnum ammo prices so probably not a starting out round in NZ and be easier with something more common.
This man needs a common cartridge with some knockdown power 7mm08, 308 to cover his bases and allow for a few cock ups like we all have had.

Originally Posted by jackson21

May have to go back to start of post....guy is just after a rifle to knock some goats over and still capable of a good deer rifle, in assuming a beginners hands?
Doesn't mention any desire to also start out buying reloading gear, learning that art, developing precision loads for precision shots out of experienced hands with lighter weight calibers.
Maybe him in a few years time....��?
All posts above are quite correct but maybe not for this guys situation, example 260 Rem is awesome calibre(had a 260 tikka and foolishly sold)but almost identical to 7mm08 or even its parent cartridge 308. You can get around 3 different types of factory in NZ, when you can get hold of it at magnum ammo prices so probably not a starting out round in NZ and be easier with something more common.
This man needs a common cartridge with some knockdown power 7mm08, 308 to cover his bases and allow for a few cock ups like we all have had.

See, this is a problem with new shooters. Starting of with bigger Cals because you think you need more knockdown power to help with a few cock ups etc etc. What happens is a couple of things in my opinion. Firstly, recoil can cause flinches, and secondly because the new shooter thinks they have some fire power shot placement isnt the end all. Results in missed and wounded game.
Like i already stated, a 223 or 243 is the best start you going to get. Little to no recoil, can hold it light like a 22 and they accruate.. Put those crosshairs on the exact spot, get in range to do the job and you going to have no fuck ups and dead anaimals.
Then after you become a marks man, and rack up game move up to longer range shooting and bigger Cals. Mastering the basics with the lighter CALs will have you suss for the Bigger Cals. We all started with .22, just seems natural way to go is go to a 223, 243 and learn shot placement then move up as shot placement is everything, including with the big boys

You are all mad. None of these are a bigger caliber and with a suppressor none are unpleasant to shoot. Anything from 223 to 416 rigby will do for that he has described so just pick a cailber based on ammo cost so choose 223 or 308.

If 223 then go get a AR15 cos they are no more expensive than a bolt action and they look a lot cooler.

Originally Posted by MassiveAttack

If 223 then go get a AR15 cos they are no more expensive than a bolt action and they look a lot cooler.

Twice the price of a bolt action of reasonable quality, noisier and more complex to operate, terrible triggers, things sticking out everywhere. Awesome.. at least they look 'cool' then.

Originally Posted by deer243

See, this is a problem with new shooters. Starting of with bigger Cals because you think you need more knockdown power to help with a few cock ups etc etc. What happens is a couple of things in my opinion. Firstly, recoil can cause flinches, and secondly because the new shooter thinks they have some fire power shot placement isnt the end all. Results in missed and wounded game.
Like i already stated, a 223 or 243 is the best start you going to get. Little to no recoil, can hold it light like a 22 and they accruate.. Put those crosshairs on the exact spot, get in range to do the job and you going to have no fuck ups and dead anaimals.
Then after you become a marks man, and rack up game move up to longer range shooting and bigger Cals. Mastering the basics with the lighter CALs will have you suss for the Bigger Cals. We all started with .22, just seems natural way to go is go to a 223, 243 and learn shot placement then move up as shot placement is everything, including with the big boys

Yes there are two trains of thought on this I guess, and not saying you are wrong.
A bad shot with any calibre is still going to be a bad shot regardless, I have .223's, 243, rifles etc but if I was only going to have one rifle it would be the 308 out of these. Hands down they do kill much more emphatically and they are not a heavy recoiling rifle using 150gr to the average sized kiwi bloke, the more people say this people will start believing it.
Answer to any flinching is more rounds down range, chuck 50-60 rounds of FMJ at range, cost you same as going to pub for a few hours in variety of shooting positions and there will be no flinch by the end and you will naturally start getting in behind it, other one is dry firing.
Ideally you would have a couple of cals, but sounds like he just after an all rounder.
Put this scenario, new shooter, spies a solid looking red deer at approx 250 meters in a clearing surrounded by solid scrub I know which cal I would want to bring the bacon.

Originally Posted by jackson21

Yes there are two trains of thought on this I guess, and not saying you are wrong.
A bad shot with any calibre is still going to be a bad shot regardless, I have .223's, 243, rifles etc but if I was only going to have one rifle it would be the 308 out of these. Hands down they do kill much more emphatically and they are not a heavy recoiling rifle using 150gr to the average sized kiwi bloke, the more people say this people will start believing it.
Answer to any flinching is more rounds down range, chuck 50-60 rounds of FMJ at range, cost you same as going to pub for a few hours in variety of shooting positions and there will be no flinch by the end and you will naturally start getting in behind it, other one is dry firing.
Ideally you would have a couple of cals, but sounds like he just after an all rounder.
Put this scenario, new shooter, spies a solid looking red deer at approx 250 meters in a clearing surrounded by solid scrub I know which cal I would want to bring the bacon.

I agree to most of what you say. The ideal all rounder esp if you looking at the cheap ammo option as well would be a 308. I have one as a back up to my 243. There are ways to over come flinching as you state, and thats all good.
But is he really after a all rounder? He states he wants it mainly for goat shooting, with the odd once in a while maybe deer hunt. Certainly Cals are more suitable for certain situations.
I would have thought for goat shooting a 223 would be the first choice, far nicer to shoot mutli shots and cheap ammo. Still capable of knocking over a deer. second , and even better is a 243. great cal, will not only be great for goats but can be used no problems as a big game rifle . Its a all rounder only draw back is the range. So you have a rifle that covers all your hunting out to say 250m.
Seems to fit what he wants. If he was doing more deer hunting, or a good mix of the two then the 308 is the way to go, because it gives you some more range and knockdown power .
But mainly for goats would you be blasting away with a 308 all day rather than a 223 or 243??
i know what i be using, horses for courses, and for a new shooter a 243 wins, then 223, then a 308 if you going to shoot more than just goats more often..buts thats just my opinion. I use a 243 as my main rifle for deer, a 308 for a back up and for longer range, never used a 223 thou

If these 2 cals you've settled on are your only option then I'd go for the 243.

Originally Posted by MightyBoosh

As per title. It'll primarily be a goat gun, with the very occasional deer stalking trip, maybe once a year. Just started doing some reading and trying to decide between .243 and .270. Any thoughts?

My simple question has generated lots of answers, thanks! I didn't consider metric calibres out of sheer ignorance, so some more to think about.

Just out of interest, .270 doesn't seem very popular at all. Is it just about cost and availability of ammo, or is there something else?

Originally Posted by MightyBoosh

My simple question has generated lots of answers, thanks! I didn't consider metric calibres out of sheer ignorance, so some more to think about.

Just out of interest, .270 doesn't seem very popular at all. Is it just about cost and availability of ammo, or is there something else?

It is overgunned for goats.
Its waning popularity is due mostly to poor selection of high bc bullets in that bore size.

Originally Posted by MightyBoosh

Just out of interest, .270 doesn't seem very popular at all. Is it just about cost and availability of ammo, or is there something else?

It has noticeably more noise and recoil than some other options, without a real advantage to justify it. Nothing wrong with the way it kills animals, its just that more efficient options will kill just as well with a smaller case and less powder burnt.

More recoil is fine for shooters with decent technique to handle it, but there are plenty of inexperienced shooters who get a bit of a fright from a harder kicking rifle and develop a flinch - which throws their accuracy and shot placement to bits and ends up with missed or wounded animals instead of clean kills. Better to learn with something friendlier IMO.