Thread: Crook deer

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Been thinking about this case and looking at the photo again and considering the coat, which is not just a moulting coat, and the poor body condition and colour of spleen I would put my money on it being Johnes Disease.

was finally going to use my past life experience as a meat inspector and you beat me to it, +1 for johnes. Possibly also a touch of peritonitis but the photos not that good.

Originally Posted by charliehorse

was finally going to use my past life experience as a meat inspector and you beat me to it, +1 for johnes. Possibly also a touch of peritonitis but the photos not that good.

Hey @charliehorse because MPI are so secretive with Meat Inspecting tutorials etc there is nothing online that I can reference / link here on how to do a proper inspection.
Would it be possible for you to run us through a proper field inspection procedure ? I am always keen to learn.

Agree can’t see what we are excited about in this photo, the spleen is small as per a shot animal where it contracts down to inject more blood in to the system.
The guy from Scotland talking about head lymph nodes might be alluding to the fact early Tb in deer is best detected in the retropharyngeal lymph nodes but subtle signs would be beyond most people. (If a vet post mortems a farm Tb reactor deer they will slice these nodes up finely and or send samples to the lab)
Johnes signs in a carcass might be thickened small intestines and big lymph nodes in the sheet of fat they hang in, watery scour in large intestine instead of pellets forming.
No idea what was happening in this case, not enough info.

@ethos seems to have a handle on it. AsureQuality look after meat inspection in NZ. Pre 98 it was MAF, now known as MPI. @Moa Hunter that's a tricky one to advise on. Basically you just want to keep an eye out for anything abnormal, which doesn't always mean you have to throw the whole thing out though either. Back in the works you'd see lots of stuff that just gets trimmed off/out and passed for export.


I could rabbit on about all sorts of pathology but you might never see it in your lifetime of gathering in the field. The prevalence of condemnable diseases isn't that high.

I like to keep an eye on the heart liver gastrointestinal intestinal tract and kidneys. Any cysts and they're out, the offal that is. Liver for enlarged bile ducts or gravel in the ducts, a definite sign of liver fluke.

Having trouble deciding how much to waffle on about but I think as general rule if there's something major that's going to affect you then you'll know it when you see it.

Originally Posted by charliehorse

@ethos seems to have a handle on it. AsureQuality look after meat inspection in NZ. Pre 98 it was MAF, now known as MPI. @Moa Hunter that's a tricky one to advise on. Basically you just want to keep an eye out for anything abnormal, which doesn't always mean you have to throw the whole thing out though either. Back in the works you'd see lots of stuff that just gets trimmed off/out and passed for export.


I could rabbit on about all sorts of pathology but you might never see it in your lifetime of gathering in the field. The prevalence of condemnable diseases isn't that high.

I like to keep an eye on the heart liver gastrointestinal intestinal tract and kidneys. Any cysts and they're out, the offal that is. Liver for enlarged bile ducts or gravel in the ducts, a definite sign of liver fluke.

Having trouble deciding how much to waffle on about but I think as general rule if there's something major that's going to affect you then you'll know it when you see it.

Why do you check the heart ? I have once seen a worm in a sheeps heart. That sheep was not thin but was below the condition of his paddock mates.
Other things have been inflamed intestines in pigs and a Chamois that was thin and had enlarged grainy lymph glands symptomatic of TB but MPI said 'inconclusive' when we delivered samples.
I have also identified Tularemia in Hares
Personally I think the best course is to start by only taking animals that are in obvious good health.

A result of 10 years checking cattle hearts I guess. You might find pericarditis or endocarditis, if you haven't shot it through the heart of course. I really should look into that Tularemia as I eat a lot of hares......

A few hunters are/have headed into the Kaimai's this weekend, I have seen six so far...must have heard there are skinny deer for the taking of.

As relatives of goats, chamois shouldn’t be susceptible to Tb, I’ve shot a few with pus in large lymph nodes, once I sent some for culture and it grew the bacteria for “cheesy gland” a problematic infection of sheep and goats but not human health risk.

Poor old Chams, they get a few bugs from sheep so in some areas they have very low reproduction rates.
I thought sheep could sometimes get TB but that it's very unusual ?

Probably technically possible, but fortunately not a thing. Imagine having to Tb test sheep

Figure I heard was 2% sheep. I think the worst most susceptible to BTB are the camelids like Alpaca and Llama; and I dont think they are in the testing regime. Info may be outdated though.

Sheep are quite resistant, there wouldn’t be a 2% prevalence or that would exceed cattle in nz.
Google points to some cases in sheep most of which seem to have been run quite closely with infected cattle.