Thread: Decades of 1080….before and after

Hi all

Just a very simple wondering I’ve had for a while and haven’t been able to answer for myself with some admittedly fairly shallow diving in the internet.
I loathe 1080 as most of us do and for all of the reasons we are familiar with. However I acknowledge that there is probably nothing else out there that kills as many of its target species (removing the killing of non targeted species, throwing poison into the outdoors etc etc) so I guess it’s here to stay for a while.
My question is has anyone quantified its long term effectiveness…and by that I mean given NZ probably had a good hundred years where pest animals went unchecked outside of trapping etc and obviously needed to time to build from initial introduction numbers to a healthy population but I wonder what the numbers were from just before the introduction of 1080 into NZ compared to numbers today after continuous cycles of drops….I guess you have to include declining numbers of species they are wishing to protect into the equation but if there were no further drops would the pest population just reach a natural but possibly acceptable population?
It’s an over simplistic question I know but I’m sure you get my gist….

OSPRI are not far off (still a few years though) from having 'possum populations at the level where TB will not be able to be sustained in the remaining population. That will lead to NZ actually being TB free.

Also, objectively viewed, the net benefit from DOC 1080 use has been the saving of species. Imagine no 1080 and the total reliance on trapping. And/or bounties. Fairyland.

I'm a supporter of 1080, and hate it.

Hate seeing by-kill like Kea, but we need to look at the big picture and net benefits and not the one-off or infrequent negative events.

60-70% of NZ bush remains untreated and has had no treatment in years -so possum numbers are unchecked in so many areas

I think 1080 has been used for the last 50 years at least, so there is a few cycles done. Prior to its introduction other controls in place would have been
Other poisons (strichnine, aresenic posphorus on rabbit control. Cyanide on possums, dont think they tried anything on ungulants)
Shooting on everything from rabbits to Deer
Trapping

1080 means different things to different people, some think of only the effect on native plants and birds such as what DOC are tasked with. For others its the effect on Deer and for some it is the control for agricultural land such as rabbits and yet others will think of it as a TB use.

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

60-70% of NZ bush remains untreated and has had no treatment in years -so possum numbers are unchecked in so many areas

Yes.
OSPRI focus on the TB endemic areas and buffers in order to break the links. From OSPRI's perspective a 'possum population with out TB is ok. They know that we will never wipe 'possums and don't particularly care. Pest free NZ isn't their game.

1080 is effective but to achieve effective pest control you need to knock down something like 60% of the population.

It's hard to ever put a dent in a pest population but allowing recreational hunters access does allow them to put in the effort and expense but the agencies suggest it doesn't work but they don't ever qualify their results.

I spent 20 odd years mixing and handling 1080 on a weekly, if not daily basis. In the early days, it was an effective tool in reducing rabbit and possum populations significantly. Back then we were that busy working hard towards the desired outcome, that no-one actually looked at the bigger picture.
Animal control with any poison is only ever short term. With rabbits, once the environment changed and land-use was altered, ( Dairying in the McKenzie basin, irrigation and subdivision in Central Otago) the need for most large scale 1080 poison operations largely disappeared. Coupled with the calici virus, landowners got some breathing space. Its obvious today that some capitalised on this, while others did not, and thats one of the reasons why there are still high rabbit numbers in some areas.
Possums are a bit different - still the population knock back, but you cant easily change the environment they live in. So on one hand you've got 1080 control due to high numbers (DOC), and also 1080 operations to eliminate Bovine TB from possums and ferrets as vectors (OSPRI, once Animal Health Board)
On top of all this, nowadays you've got lies, deceit, cover-ups and politics playing a part. I don't know of any simple answer, although maintaining the buffer zones seems to be a big step in the right direction. I don't like that 1080 has become the immediate go-to solution, but maybe it was and still is a necessary evil, time will tell.

Originally Posted by Mohawk .308

Imagine no 1080? Te Urewera is a good example of no 1080

Exactly

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/...native-species

When we are fragmented as a nation, what’s the point, we cannot win

Very interesting and balanced replies…I’ll offer this caveat to my next few sentences…I’m
A towny sort who although curses the regularity that some of my fave hunting spots get hit and the plethora of poison signs when taking a roady on the west coast I guess I’ve just accepted it as it is and other than checking the pesticide summary to protect my pooch before heading away then the only other time it’s brought to my attention is when it pops up in the media…and it seems, at least to me it’s discussed there in conjunction almost solely with mast boom and rat populations….very little talk of TB (although I believe Molesworth/Rainbow have/are being treated due tb?)
Also I guess if I could refine my earlier question….how dire was it in the 50s prior to widespread use of aerial 1080….what was the pest population after 100years without 1080 compared to now after 60 yrs of drops…prevalence of tb then and now….native species numbers?
I don’t have any preformed opinions on these questions just honestly interested in seeing the comparisons and the effectiveness (or not) of the default solution.
Cheers
FP

My studied opinion is that had the hundreds of millions of dollars spent by DoC, AHB and regional councils on 1080 poison operations been invested EXPERTLY on ground based trapping ong with timely fully managed stock movement controls and reliable btb testing then we would have eliminated the agricultural threat of btb ma y years ago and achieved well managed wildlands biodiversity with virtually zero negative effects. The socio- economcic spinoffs to rural communities would also be considerable. It has been a costly excersise for NZ that such a narrow focus of opportunities was/were adopted by officialdom and it's hype.

I grew up on a farm in the middle of the King Country, surrounded by bush, it would be nothing to shoot 100 possums in a night spot lighting driving down the road. And every farm was TB positive. A few deer around, but not many. I was 19 before I saw a northern rata flower.

Then when I was about 15 they started carpet bombing the surrounding bush with 1080. My old man talked about the green rain, it was everywhere. I'd love to know how many tonnes they dropped.

Now, its been at least a decade since a TB reactor. Prob been that long since I've seen a possum, even in the fruit trees. More deer, goats and pigs than you can shoot, I counted a mob of 13 last time I was out there.

People talk about trapping it, I've walked that bush probably more than any man ever. Its thick, dense, wet. Its also full of birds, weta, eels, kiwi, bats. Its as close to NZ before man got here as I can imagine. I'd love to take a 'trap instead of 1080' person into it and see what they think. You couldnt even put tracks through most of it.

I don't like 1080 and I'd love if there as some other solution. But there isn't. And it works.

HG man....where in central king country??? kaitieke was my home for my teen years and my findings are very similar to yours...
but the buffer thing...when we were all out shooting trapping possums there WAS a buffer ...any easy to get to land/farm land got hammered...so it created a buffer.... isnt that what TB control needs??? low numbers of ferals on farm edges. I know of a VERY big station in central north island that has just discovered they have a major TB issue.

@micky
Kaitieke is a pretty remote place to be able to call home, back in the 70s my old man as a teenager spent a couple seasons living in a hut in the Upper Retaruke on a block that some friends of his from Wellington had bought. It was a fairly basic existence judging from stories and photos. Once a week he used to go and do a days work for the Cocky next door in exchange for some eggs and a shower.

Originally Posted by Tahr

OSPRI are not far off (still a few years though) from having 'possum populations at the level where TB will not be able to be sustained in the remaining population. That will lead to NZ actually being TB free.

Also, objectively viewed, the net benefit from DOC 1080 use has been the saving of species. Imagine no 1080 and the total reliance on trapping. And/or bounties. Fairyland.

I'm a supporter of 1080, and hate it.

Hate seeing by-kill like Kea, but we need to look at the big picture and net benefits and not the one-off or infrequent negative events.

I have experience gained from working in Canada, a country declared TB free. I used to export CSL ( Australia ) Tuberculin to the USA for skin testing Elk and was involved when domestic Elk in Alberta imported from the US were found to have TB and the infected herds depopulated. From that experience I have a different perspective based on math. A clinical case TB possum will live two weeks, so it has two weeks to infect other possums or cattle. From this it is easy to calculate the probable infection rate factor for a given population density and this is what Ospri does. Unless possums are at a very high density it is obvious that TB cannot be maintained in possums, they die before they spread it. What is ignored is that Cattle are the natural host of Bovine TB and can carry a latent infection for ten years or more before they develop clinical disease and become infectious. During this 'latent carrier' period they do not react to a skin test. ( They do test positive to a BTB test ) A property with latent infections cannot be cleared using the skin test. Depopulation is the only way to clean up a persistently infected herd. Some herds have been 'I 10' status ( infected ten years ) despite annual air drops of 1080. TB is being 'Farmed' and jobs maintained with this slow control rather than elimination.