Thread: Decades of 1080….before and after

I've often wondered what the risk of TB in things like rats is - often seen them scavenging carcasses as well as the usual suspects like fruit, cereal, eggs, raw dairy products, water pipes etc etc. I've seen rats everywhere I've been in the bush - bloody worse than possums or deer. Also feral cats - they have the ideal traits to cart TB for a long way...

One of the things that isn't often mentioned with 1080 is that it is especially effective on invertebrates and amphibians, both of which are in short supply in a lot of areas. I have seen it mentioned as an area requiring further study in many reports, but as yet never seen an actual report on it and the likely effects on biodiversity in that section of the fauna. Every action has a consequence, and while saving native species is worth it there is a concern that we might be unknowingly doing damage at the other end.

One of the main objections to 1080 is the hugely political and financial nature of it and the neverending battle which seems to be a 'managed partial success' model to keep everyone thinking that we are winning this war and keeping on spending while we do it.

There are a lot of areas that have been dropped with 1080 only to have all the baits destroyed 3-5 days later with the next rain cycle, and a lot of the places that people quote as impossible to treat via ground methods are actually not that bad. Sure you are limited to carrying capabilities and it will be a long term input of labour and resources rather than a 2-day spray, pray, fly away job - but against that station-protected baits have the potential to maintain efficiacy for weeks if not months against in some cases days for topdressed applications.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

HG man....where in central king country??? kaitieke was my home for my teen years and my findings are very similar to yours....

Bit north of there, Ohura way. Family hails from down that way, have spent plenty of time in that neck of the woods.

The buffer issue, I don't really know enough about it really.

Originally Posted by HG Man

I grew up on a farm in the middle of the King Country, surrounded by bush, it would be nothing to shoot 100 possums in a night spot lighting driving down the road. And every farm was TB positive. A few deer around, but not many. I was 19 before I saw a northern rata flower.

Then when I was about 15 they started carpet bombing the surrounding bush with 1080. My old man talked about the green rain, it was everywhere. I'd love to know how many tonnes they dropped.

Now, its been at least a decade since a TB reactor. Prob been that long since I've seen a possum, even in the fruit trees. More deer, goats and pigs than you can shoot, I counted a mob of 13 last time I was out there.

People talk about trapping it, I've walked that bush probably more than any man ever. Its thick, dense, wet. Its also full of birds, weta, eels, kiwi, bats. Its as close to NZ before man got here as I can imagine. I'd love to take a 'trap instead of 1080' person into it and see what they think. You couldnt even put tracks through most of it.

I don't like 1080 and I'd love if there as some other solution. But there isn't. And it works.

So from what you're saying the 1080 has been (very) effective against possums, but not against deer, goats and pigs. But isn't this what we hunters want? - i.e. poison drops NOT wiping out deer populations etc? So, has 1080 in fact been the the Bogey Man we all love to hate?

I'm confused.

Originally Posted by Copelli

So from what you're saying the 1080 has been (very) effective against possums, but not against deer, goats and pigs. But isn't this what we hunters want? - i.e. poison drops NOT wiping out deer populations etc? So, has 1080 in fact been the the Bogey Man we all love to hate?

I'm confused.

I think a lot of people are pretty selective about the facts they acknowledge. Every knows about the native birds that do get killed and oh boy do the anti-1080 crowd love to talk about that. But they always forget to mention that any by-kill is more than made up by successful breeding after predator numbers have dropped.

My 2 cents.

Benifits would be greater using trapping.

Pureora Forest has had more than it's share of 1080, possums still live there happily waiting for the next drop. Knocks them back but doesn't eradicate. Many bait stations in one area I roam lucky to have been attended once in 3 years.

This timeline traces the introduction of pest mammal species to New Zealand, the use of 1080 for pest control and how advances in science and technology have improved how we use it.
https://www.sciencelearn.org.nz/inte...rol-a-timeline

Interesting. Not bogged down with data. Good simple overview.

Originally Posted by Mohawk .308

They’d be a lot better off putting all their efforts into off shore islands for our endangered species, at least making them predator free could actually be achievable. NZ predator free 2050 is a laughable.

I am not 100% confident that it is achievable but I sure as hell wouldnt say its laughable and right the idea off completely.

10 yrs ago did you think they would have self re setting traps that only needed a battery change every 6 months ? Did you ever imagine they would of had traps that had audio attraction powers ? Do you think that in the near future you will have live capture traps that can identify what species is in the trap and that the trap will select if it is the correct species and thus spring the trap shut and send a signal by remote sensor or even kill the species selected and reset itself ?

Originally Posted by Mohawk .308

They’d be a lot better off putting all their efforts into off shore islands for our endangered species, at least making them predator free could actually be achievable. NZ predator free 2050 is a laughable.

This alternative view might resonate with you then. They don't go so far as to say the policy is laughable though.

https://conbio.onlinelibrary.wiley.c...111/conl.12593

Easiest way to hammer pests is to make them worth decent money. Look at the deer population from the 1930s ( granted it was war time) , then in the 1980s when they were pretty scarce because of meat hunting and farming , till now they are out of control again . as they have minimal value for some strange reason.

I believe it would be of far better econimic and practicle value to make little islands of sanctuary all over the show,wherever geography lends itself to doing it and nuke those areas really hard to kill off all the bad species then reintroduce the desirable ones....and keep them pest free manually,trap ,shoot,monitor....
they would end up acting as nurseries with excess populations going out into big brave dangerous world.
I believe the trick to keeping possum numbers down is a big hit then continual bait stations ,trapping or shooting.... as said before if you want buffer zones,make it economically viable and attractive to go after them possums either full time or full on part time...the bounty idea has been bandied about for years... just as an EG ...the Beemans...Mr &Mrs go out and trap possums,pluck the fur and sell the bodies..now if you gave them say $2-5 per set of ears ASWELL..... it really starts to add up....
the cockies kids would start to run trap line again.... and so what if road kill gets scalped and handed in??? its a dead possum=a good possum
people would only target the easy country,others will say...again so what??? thats the buffer zone you WANT TARGETED,its the landscape with cattle on it or close by.

why I detest 1080 is Ive seen how it kills dogs....its really ugly to put it mildly.... dogs are very suseptable and it only takes a tiny bit of poison or dead carcass to kill a dog.... family friend lost 16 dogs in one night,while they were overseas representing NZ in sport.....possum bodies had been bought from regular supplier...what no one knew was that a person had collected bodies from a 1080 drop zone....sold them to possum buyer and the rest is history.

Originally Posted by ANOTHERHUNTER

Easiest way to hammer pests is to make them worth decent money. Look at the deer population from the 1930s ( granted it was war time) , then in the 1980s when they were pretty scarce because of meat hunting and farming , till now they are out of control again . as they have minimal value for some strange reason.

If they had put a bounty on possom 20 years ago there would be shit loads less then there is now, its pretty hard to justify a night shoot at the moment time you pay for ammo and time plucking and i don't need to take travel cost.

Originally Posted by Mohawk .308

It’s good to have dreams but do you honestly think NZ could get rid of every rat in the country? What about those trap shy rats?
A great goal to have but let’s put a bit of reality around it. It’s a bit like smoke free 2025. A great goal to have but everyone with half a clue knows it will never happen.

With current technology no I dont think predator free 2050 is possible but do you think trap technology will continue to improve ?

Fark we'll never de-rat NZ. Not with the numbers in urban and urban/rural interface areas...

Originally Posted by sore head stoat

I am not 100% confident that it is achievable but I sure as hell wouldnt say its laughable and right the idea off completely.

10 yrs ago did you think they would have self re setting traps that only needed a battery change every 6 months ? Did you ever imagine they would of had traps that had audio attraction powers ? Do you think that in the near future you will have live capture traps that can identify what species is in the trap and that the trap will select if it is the correct species and thus spring the trap shut and send a signal by remote sensor or even kill the species selected and reset itself ?

Those type of traps, has already in the market, but not with all the features as you mentions. To put it together, 8 months tops for prototype, back to back tests, go to market in two years of time. How hard it could be, just question of market size, how willing this govt want to move to real environment free solution