Thread: Deer Population Growth

We might want to be careful making generalisations across the country based on what we see locally. Perception often influences reality. If you hunt private blocks, farms or stations, I would imagine you would see many more animals than say a hunter in the upper north island that has only access to Doc bush blocks. Youtube doesn't help where hunters will spend days passing over a number of animals to shoot a ripper stag (and full credit to them). Meanwhile, someone starting out in the Kaimanawas, Pureora or Kaimai bush, might spend days hunting "ghosts in the darkness" sika or reds, and get squealed or barked at. It's all relative to where you go.

But, when generalisations are made by the hunting community, is it any surprise when Doc increases pest control measures, or Waro fires up? And what is the response from forums like this? Complaints about such operations. So perhaps if you are seeing such big numbers of animals on private blocks, let people know locally you trust, and do something about it and reduce the hind numbers. I recently spend three days in my favourite tops spot. I go a couple of times of year if I'm lucky (and Jacinta let me) and spend a few days glassing animals. I saw a dozen, hinds, fawns, stags (in velvet and just stripped), spikers and young hinds without animals at foot. Loved it. They were all in healthy condition, and the numbers are about the same as what I have seen in previous years. Are they out of control? Maybe. Maybe not. But I took a couple of young animals, left the stags to grow, and hope to go back. Isn't that what it's all about, actually seeing deer? Just saying.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

with the MPI regulations as they are they can’t even make it pay...

Seems to me these MPI fellas hold at least some of the keys to this problem? And also hold the keys to farm profitability, at least for many smaller livestock farmers?
But maybe not, just a slightly educated guess.

Im pretty sure that DOC fire up on an evidenced based basis and not conjecture or utube reports.

Originally Posted by gimp

No-one to my knowledge is or has been actually working on it. Genetic work for conservation was ironically put off the table by everyone's favourite Minister of Conservation (Sage)

There would be huge economic and social hurdles to use even if the technology was ever developed to be functional (which it currently has not been, for anything, anywhere, as far as I know)

I have been gone from DOC a long time but they were we had talks on it from visiting scientists

Originally Posted by Tahr

Im pretty sure that DOC fire up on an evidenced based basis and not conjecture or utube reports.

disagree.

Originally Posted by STC

disagree.

https://www.doc.govt.nz/our-work/mon...tes-2022-2023/

Originally Posted by gimp

https://www.doc.govt.nz/our-work/mon...tes-2022-2023/

I prefer facts I and other people see on the ground instead of "reports" written by what nowadays can only be classified as ideologues.

Originally Posted by STC

I prefer facts I and other people see on the ground instead of "reports" written by what nowadays can only be classified as ideologues.

Are you saying that your anecdotal evidence is more robust than scientific research?

Originally Posted by Tahr

Are you saying that your anecdotal evidence is more robust than scientific research?

I am saying that "Science" that only regards data that verifies one set narrative, and disregards the reat isn't science.

Originally Posted by STC

I am saying that "Science" that only regards data that verifies one set narrative, and disregards the reat isn't science.

We have been down that road with the now banned covid debate. Its a no win tread mill and can only end in tears I will move on.

Originally Posted by Tahr

We have been down that road with the now banned covid debate. Its a no win tread mill and can only end in tears I will move on.

good, thank you

What historically was done to control deer numbers?
Government and private funded culling obviously, both by heli and nzfs etc.
Wasn't a deer carcass once worth money? What measures did MPI take that removed the monetary value of deer to the average hunter? Genuine question.

"1080 will never be used to eradicate deer." @Tahr. Never say never. Trials were done years ago on the effectiveness of . One trial was applying paste to foliage of preferred browse of Whitetail down south. There was talk of 1080 trials on Fallow down south as well (farmer initiative possibly), have been on a place where we shot a few for dog tucker and thinned the rest to waste. And it was accidently proven how effective it can be on Red deer on Molesworth a few years ago, everyone involved in that operation was horrified at the outcome of that operation.

Originally Posted by Snoppernator

We might want to be careful making generalisations across the country based on what we see locally.

You can’t really call the widest part of the country with an almost ubiquitous ungulate problem from coast to coast a local situation…. That’s a significant regional problem on a broad scale. From the far western Taranaki right the Wanganui, Manawatu, Taihape, Ruapehu, Taumarunui, Taupo, over to the Kaimanawas and through to the Wairarapa & Hawkes Bay and up into the East Cape. Red deer are on the move and are being seen in areas they have either never been seen before or they’ve long been assumed to have been eradicated. On one of my permissions near Ureti in the NW Taranaki, third-generation farmers are seeing fallow for the first time where previously they’ve only had a problem with pigs and goats. On another permission near Waverley in the S Taranaki, where there is a significant fallow population, the landowner was horrified to see a mob of reds on his back paddocks last winter. Never seen them before and neither have any of the guys that hunt his property. Ditto sika, they are starting to turn up all over the Western Ruapehu now, and that’s a very recent thing.

People I know inland from Hicks Bay on the NE end of the Raukumaras talk about plagues of reds raiding their farms in numbers they’ve not experienced over three generations.

Similar sentiment from those on here that farm in Hawke’s Bay. Just look at @BRADS photos from a few days ago.

This isn’t a private block, local level problem, were taking out hinds on a recreational hunter level is going to make any difference. It’s a far bigger problem than that. But also I don’t think there’s any nationwide generalising happening here based on local observations at all. The comments so far have been quite specific geographically speaking.

Originally Posted by woods223

"1080 will never be used to eradicate deer." @Tahr. Never say never. Trials were done years ago on the effectiveness of . One trial was applying paste to foliage of preferred browse of Whitetail down south. There was talk of 1080 trials on Fallow down south as well (farmer initiative possibly), have been on a place where we shot a few for dog tucker and thinned the rest to waste. And it was accidently proven how effective it can be on Red deer on Molesworth a few years ago, everyone involved in that operation was horrified at the outcome of that operation.

its not licensed for use on ungulates. And the public would never allow it. Molesworth was a shambles but the silver lining was the increased acceptance and use of repellent and adjustments in sewing rates.